Sacc rest w/infusion mash?

[hooky]

I mash in an igloo cooler. I'd like to brew a recipe that calls for a rest at 122 before taking it to 155. Is this advisable with an in infusion mash? How thick can the mash be to still get the effects of the sacc rest?

[BrewDog]

How big is the batch? How much grain? What types of grains/adjuncts? Can you post the recipe? Some recipes that call for a protein rest don't really need it. It might not be necessary at all.

If it is, you can dough in at .75 qts per lb, but not much less.
You can always do a small decoction to raise temps if you need to due to running out of room. They aren't difficult, just time consuming. Lots of ways to skin this cat, but the easiest way is to not have to do it at all.

[hooky]

Sorry BrewDog, I'm calling it a sacc rest when I should be saying protein rest.

5.5 gallon batch
6lbs wheat
3 lbs pale
2 lbs pilsner
3/4 oz Hallertauer 60 min
wyeast 3638 Bavarian

Mash schedule is 122 for 20 minutes & 154 until conversion is complete.


I've used all three grains before but never used a protein rest. Recipe from a friend who got me started. Some of his stuff is old school, like steeping grains and pulling them just before start of boil.

[Mad Scientist]

I might dough for the low temp rest at the suggested .75 qt per lb, then add boiling water bring the grist/water ratio to 1 qt per lb, and the mash into conversion temps......if it is not hot enough at the point there should be enough liquid free liquid to draw it out, heat--gently, and put it back in the mash. Stir well.

[BrewDog]

No question, this batch definitely needs a protein rest, with all that wheat and pilsner malt. I'd add a lb of rice or oat hulls, too, to prevent a stuck mash.

Do what Boerne suggests and it should work out ok (though I think going as far as up to 1.5 qts per lb would be ok, just try not to go over that). Pay attention to your mash pH. Big infusion temp jumps tend to go towards alkaline.

HTH-

[hooky]

I hadn't thought about mash ph. I currently adjust my batch sparge ph with 88% lactic. I've got a ph range of 6.9-7.1 coming out of the filter when I'm filling my HLT. Do I adjust my intitial mash ph also or just the 2nd infusion ph and sparge? This the first time I've used this high of a % of wheat.

Thanks for the help...again.

[BrewDog]

Adjust to stay near 5.2 in the mash tun during all of your steps.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by hooky
I hadn't thought about mash ph. I currently adjust my batch sparge ph with 88% lactic. I've got a ph range of 6.9-7.1 coming out of the filter when I'm filling my HLT. Do I adjust my intitial mash ph also or just the 2nd infusion ph and sparge? This the first time I've used this high of a % of wheat.

Thanks for the help...again.

With a pH range like that you should have no problem with the mash as it will self buffer. Landing with the strike liquor at or near 7 you should see low 5's in the tun. If you don't then you might want to think about adjusting, but I would adjust in the tun rather then the liquor itself. My .02 YMMV

[Mad Scientist]

where you been Brewmonkey?

[hooky]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
With a pH range like that you should have no problem with the mash as it will self buffer. Landing with the strike liquor at or near 7 you should see low 5's in the tun. If you don't then you might want to think about adjusting, but I would adjust in the tun rather then the liquor itself. My .02 YMMV

So it sounds like my normal procedure will work. I've always hit low 5's in previous mashes, but I've always adjusted my water in the HLT to go under 5.5 before starting the batch sparge.

[CiderJoe]

Beorne Brew - Thanks for the tip about drawing off liquid from the mash and heating it gently and then using that to raise the temp. Have your results bee good with that?

I have been having similar problems with the consistancy of the mash. Sometimes I get a really runny mash because I do infusion mashing. So if I do a protien rest, I end up with almost mash soup.

Cider

[Mad Scientist]

I do it to bring up to mash out at every mash, but I frequently--for one reason or another--am not happy with my initial mash temp, so that is my method for altering mash temp. Has worked for me now for years.

[BrewDog]

Yes, this works well provided you are not brewing an adjunct-laden beer. Remember that heating the mash wort (beyond sacch. temps) will speed up (or even complete) the enzyme denaturing of that portion of the wort. It is possible to leave yourself with too few enzymes to convert the mash if you are not careful.

"Normal" decoctions work because you are boiling a thick portion of wet grains, instead of just the "broth". There are more enzymes concentrated in the "broth", so you can boil the grains without worrying about that and concentrate on having your homebrew.

[Mad Scientist]

Yeah, I should have added that you really, really need to pay attention to your temps when you do this. If I am needing to raise the mash temp, I'll only heat the wort I drained to ~155, espicially if I am only trying to get it up a few degrees.....

And when i say gently, I mean a low flame.

[CiderJoe]

That's going to be a problem for me. I have electric. I know. It sucks. But that's what we have. I'm really afraid that I might get to much caramelization going on. What do you think?

[Mad Scientist]

Not sure, electric will certainly heat slwoly though

[CiderJoe]

It's not just the slowness, but when you need to reduce the heat, it's slow as well. You just don't have the control you have with gas.

I'm thinking about doing a decoction mash for my next brew, which will be a Wiezen Bier. I'm thinking about using my Brew Pot as the Mash Tun and transferring the mash to my double buckets for the sparging and launtering. Does that sound ok? My Brew Pot is just a 26 liter Stainless pot. But fotr teh purpose of heating the mash, I thought it might be better. But it might require alot of moving the pot on and off the burner to prevent the grain at the bottle from getting scorched. I was planning on using a smaller pot to boil the decoctions in.

Sound reasonable or am I just making my life really difficult and should stick to infusion mashing until I get better gear?

[BrewDog]

The 26 liter pot should serve just fine as a decoction pot. You aren't going to be decocting 6 gallons of grain, so it will be big enough but not too big. I'd just use that and leave the main mash in your normal mash tun.

[takhsh]

Originally posted by CiderJoe
I was planning on using a smaller pot to boil the decoctions in.


By all means use the smaller pot to boil the decoction.
I hope that the smaller pot has a better than plain steel bottom. By better I mean a copper/steel clad, or aluminum/steel clad. You need the beeter bottom for not scortching the grain. Definitely you can not decoct the whole thing. Yo uwill destroy all the enzymes!

It is very true, that decoction make things much more complicated, and I would try to avoid doing so unless you are mastering the single infusion, and you are doing decoction because the recipe asks for. I found out that decoction adds a lot of flavor to the beer, that can not be made out by other means. At the same time, it adds at least two more hours of mashing ( I do two decoctions, and each one takes me one hour) besides the complicaton of things.

[hooky]

I'm brewing this one, along with a wheat wine tomorrow. I lost the pale, and matched the wheat with an equal amount of continental pilsner. I switched yeast to Weihenstephan.

5.5 gallon batch
6lbs wheat
6 lbs pilsner
3/4 oz Hallertauer 60 min
wyeast 3068
122 for 20 minutes & 154 until conversion is complete.
90 minute boil due to all the pilsner.

Thanks for all the help.