McSorley's Old Ale House

[NJ Tom]

I'm rather fond of this place but after spending last monday afternoon in there I got to wondering about the "ale" McSorley's serves. It tastes like a sweet lager and not a very good one. Does anyone have information about the brew they serve?

[chazwicke]

Are you talking about McSorleys in NYC? THier beer used to be made by Ortliebs back in the 80s. Not sure who makes it now. It's been years since I was last in there. Bet it has not changed.

[jesskidden]

Yeah, the McSorley ales have bounced around a lot- a local NYC brewery, Fidelio, was the first brewer IIRC, then it went to Liebmann (Rheingold), which also bottled the ale for a while, dropped it and then revived the bottled product in the 70's. It went to Ortlieb after Rheingold's demise (most of their other brands went to Schmidt's) and then wound up at Schmidt's after Ortlieb went under.

Since then, it's been said that both The Lion and Matts have made at least some of the draught beer (I remember a time when the bartenders claimed the dark was a Lion product), while the bottled product followed the Heileman>Stroh>Pabst lineage. Certainly, the bottled ale that is currently marketed by Pabst, brewed by City, is *nothing* like the light but very hoppy ale made by Rheingold/Ortlieb/Schmidts.

[jalstromer]

Originally posted by NJ Tom
I'm rather fond of this place but after spending last monday afternoon in there I got to wondering about the "ale" McSorley's serves. It tastes like a sweet lager and not a very good one. Does anyone have information about the brew they serve?

I am pretty sure Miller had their hands on the brand for a bit ... its a Pabst brand now:

http://pabst.com/mainpage.html

[NJ Tom]

The bottle says that it's ale but it doesn't taste like it to me.

[ClockworkOrange]

I was just at the Lion on Sat. for their 150th anniv. and saw McSorleys Ale on one of the dry erase boards listing batches in the holding tanks during the tour. I was surprised to learn that they produce close to 300 different beers/sodas there.

[jesskidden]

Originally posted by ClockworkOrange
I was just at the Lion on Sat. for their 150th anniv. and saw McSorleys Ale on one of the dry erase boards listing batches in the holding tanks during the tour. I was surprised to learn that they produce close to 300 different beers/sodas there.

Yeah, certainly one of the ways some of the very few old line breweries (City and The Lion in particular) have survived is to expand their product lines, which includes soda and other non-alcoholic drinks (The Lion seems to make most of the maltas I see in the supermarkets) as well as contract brewing/bottling. (City even has a separate website page- http://www.citybrewery.com/ click on "MidWest Beverage Packers" but turn your speakers down first...).

A few months back, the industry magazine Beverage World had a cover story/interview with Pabst's CEO Kevin "I can't see any reason why I would want to own a brewery" Kotecki and The Lion actually spent some bucks to have a 1/4 page ad on one of the pages of the article saying:
''Congratulations Pabst Brewing Co. on your continued success in the brewing industry"
-so it looks as if The Lion wouldn't mind more of Pabst's contracts obviously.

While Miller seems to make "most" of the Pabst brands, City also does some of them (altho' in a different article a few years ago, City was interviewed about the possible forced sale of Pabst and said they weren't worried because it's a "very small" portion of their production totals) and I seem to remember some other Lion-brewed Pabst brands around (Haffenreffer, maybe?).

I've never seen bottled McSorley's from The Lion but, as I noted above, for many years the bartenders said the "Dark Ale" was coming from Wilkes-Barre.

In the case of another famous/infamous contract brew, supposedly, The Lion has also brewed some Mackeson Stout (in 22 oz. bottles IIRC) but I never bought it at the time and no longer see it - I did hear it was superior to BBC's version.

Which brings up the strange world of contract brewing- BBC doesn't have capacity to brew all of it's own beers (so contracts with High Falls, City and Miller) but DOES brew Mackeson's and Whitbread under contract in Cincinnati. Miller has so much excess capacity (even after closing a few breweries) it can make most of Pabst's brands and some Sam Adams but then contracts out some Henry Weinhard production. (Granted, in some cases, it's also a matter of fulfilling contracts even tho' business conditions have changed, geographical advantages [both in reducing shippings cost as well as being able to call Weinhard a "Pacific Northwest" beer] and, I'd suppose, the very real economic advantage of selling beer in huge quantities to some other "brewer" who then has to distribute it and sell it to the public.)

[MeridianFC]

I just have one thing to say: who's on first?

[chazwicke]

In some ways it's gratifying to see some of the old guard survive. While Yuengling successfully made the transition to modern day respect by strategically re-inventing itself as a premium product (I don't much care for their beers other than the lauded porter) and others survived by grasping at trends and fads (Schell's - multi series contract label can sets.) Some like Straub's and Lion just chugged along doing what they could. Straubs is content with what they have and it's limited distribution area. They have been happy to satisfy the market that they have and not worry too much about growing or expanding. (I have a very soft spot for Straubs) FX Matt, Lion and Pittsburgh all helped themselves by contract brewing and occasionally making some decent brews of their own. Genessey sold out but at one time their 12 Horse Ale was one of the few standouts of the era along with Ballantine IPA. A few others around the country have tried to stay afloat (Literally Dixie in New Orleans) and Cold Spring (are they still around?) while other have bitten the dust. (both Walters, Picketts, National, Hudepohl, Heileman and Dunks). Since the late 70s several of the regionals have become extinct and I feel like the ones that survived until today deserve some sort of respect even if sometimes they do not necessarily produce the best product. I could name a bunch of other breweries that were still in operation when I started my quest that just couldn't quite hang in there.

[jesskidden]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
I just have one thing to say: who's on first?

No, no- it's much more complicated than that. It's who was supposed to be up, who pinch-hit for him and who's that pinch-runner on base now (and didn't he used to play for the other team?). <g>