getting malts form the amish?

[castroaamp21]

I have not yet brewed my first brew, but I already have questions. I have read a few different books, and think I am ready to start. My first beer will be an octoberfest because I already have the malt. Even though I have not yet started, i am already looking ahead. I am looking for different places to get my supplies for expense reasons, and I was wondering if anyone has had any experience with getting malts from amish grocery stores, or maybe if someone could tell me what to expect the quality to be like when using this option. I would really be greatfull to hear any comments about it. thanks

[fatboy570]

I live about 30 miles southwest of Springfield MO. I dont know if there are any Amish maltsters in this area or not, but do know a guy who lives around Verona, which has a fairly large Amish population. I could check with him and find out, but it may take a week or so. I take it you do all grain brewing?

[castroaamp21]

thanks, that would be great. any information would help. I live in springfield MO, so verona wouldnt be that far for me to go. I have heard from a friend that there is a large amish grocery store in norwood, but that is pretty far. I havent really got in to the grain brewing yet, I have much to learn. thanks again, I will keep my findings posted.

[dparsons]

I assume since you are planning an Octoberfest that you have some type of lagering fridge?

[castroaamp21]

yes, i am looking for a fridge with a temp adjust, but i wonder what temp is best. Also, i didnt know it was a lager. after all my research i should have known it was a lager, i guess it is easy to see i am a new to home brewing. have you ever brewed an this type of loger, and if so can you lend any type of suggestions. should i do a second ferment? thanks!

[BrewDog]

I suggest you take a step back here for a minute.

If you have NEVER brewed a beer before, an AG Octoberfest from malted grain from local sources is not necessarily the best beer to start off with, for a few reasons (though not impossible).

1) The big maltsters have a very rigid quality control around the modification process. You won't know how modified the malt you have is, so you will need to do a step mash with a protein rest or risk lipids, etc from the proteins in the grain. This calls for a complicated mash schedule.

2) Lagers take longer. As a first time brewer, you will want to drink the results sooner rather than later. Wouldn't you rather make a 6 week pale ale vs. a 3 month Octoberfest?

3) Lagers (and AG) take more equipment than an ale extract batch. It would suck for you to take the time and effort and money getting all the stuff you need only to figure out that you really don't like brewing.

4) There are a zillion details that you need to get right when doing a complicated AG batch. While it is not impossible, IMO it would be better to introduce the more difficult processes after you have a couple easy batches under your belt. Get the basics right (stuff like sanitation, preventing oxidation, racking, bottling, etc) on an easy recipe then move on to the tougher recipes.

I don't want to discourage you from brewing. In fact, my thoughts are just the opposite. I want to help you make your first batch a success so that you will want to brew again and again. Lots of people fail on their first batch, and give it up after that one test. By setting the odds in your favor, I think you can make a really good beer your first time out, and then you can work up to trying the advanced techniques such as multi-step mashing, etc.

JMO & HTH-

[barleyburps]

I say go for it. . .jump right in, it's the best way to learn. Your first batch may or may not be up to your anticipated expectations, but most likely, you'll still get a decent beer.

[castroaamp21]

valid points; i wouldnt want to get discouraged by a bad brew, but i know it happens. I understand that as a lager, an octoberfest will take longer to mature, so I got a second carboy so I will be able to brew some faster brews while I'm waiting on the octoberfest. Does anyone have any suggested recipes for my first batch other than the octoberfest? I tend to like the brown ales. Thanks for the advice!

[Vienna Lager]

I'm siding with Brew Dog (as always, hehe) and suggest starting with a extract kit and go from there. That is how I started and after about 5 batches began rummaging around for stuff to make a mash/lauter tun. Found a 48-50 (?) qt. cooler and some copper tubing and the rest is history.

There is a lot to learn about AG that can only come with time and multiple batches. You need to get the logistics down of where, and how you are heating your strike and sparge water and how it is being transfered into the mash/lauter tun and then how is the wort being transfered into the boil kettle or cook pot. Are you using gravity or a march pump and if so are you collecting the wort in a grant etc, etc....?

This last weekend our club pounded out a big brew with 200 lbs of grain that yielded 18 carboys of wort. Of the entire group that showed up throughout the day 3-4 of us had a handle on what was going on and pulled the big brew off. The 8-10 extract and/or new brewers really didn't have a clue as to the process but they did afterwords. One fellow was asked to check gravity and he didn't know what a refractormeter was. When we were checking for conversion doing an iodine test a couple of the observers had that deer in the headlights look.

What I am getting at is I am now at a point in the brewing process that I wasn't at when I first started. It can only come with time.

P.S. To keep you anxiety lever to a minimum shop at a reputable LHBS and leave the Amish shopping spree for a later date.

[BrewDog]

Originally posted by castroaamp21
Does anyone have any suggested recipes for my first batch other than the octoberfest? I tend to like the brown ales. Thanks for the advice!

Go to John Palmer's www.howtobrew.com web site and scroll down for the Tittabawasee Brown Ale (http://www.howtobrew.com/section4/chapter19-3.html) recipe.

This recipe will come out similar to Deschutes' Buzzsaw Brown.

I'd go for it and try the extract with steeped grains version (not the all-extract version -- it will taste and smell a lot better). It is a straight forward, very easy to make recipe that I'm sure you'll enjoy. It can be ready with a 2 week primary and 2 weeks in the bottles (though 1 week primary and 2 weeks secondary will make a less cloudy, clearer beer).

If for whatever reason you can't get 6 lbs pale DME (dry malt extract), you can use 7 1/3 lbs of pale (aka light) liquid malt extract instead.

HTH-

[danno]

well, German brewers of long ago had no way to check level of modification, or any of them other fun brewing statistics we take for granted, that's how they came up with the various processes (like decoction mashing) to compensate. if you really want to jump in with both feet and do a decoction mash O-fest with Amish bought malt, I'm behind you cheering all the way. good luck!

[castroaamp21]

hey thanks for the support danno, but i think i have been just a bit misleading. The octoberfest i have been talking about is in fact a malt axtract kit, thats why i thought it might be something i can do. but that rises another questions, is the extract kit all i need for the octoberfest (besides the yeast and hopes). Thanks brewdog, that looks good. What can i expect as far as alcohol content for that ale you suggest. thanks again

[BrewDog]

(The brown should end up around 5.25-5.5% ABV give or take.)

We were really under the impression that you were thinking about using locally produced malt in an AG batch from scratch. This changes things a LOT.

1) You can always do the Octoberfest extract kit as an ale if you simply substitute ale yeast. Nothing wrong with that, it just won't be a true Octo, but if you use a nice clean ale yeast (Wyeast 1056 or Safeale S-05) it will end up with lower esters and closer to a lager than if you had used say English ale yeast.

2) Most kits call for adding sugar. DON'T!!! Use light unhopped malt extract instead. Your taste buds will thank you.

3) Most kits are already hopped. An Octo doesn't need any flavor or aroma hops, so whatever is in the kit is most likely enough.

What brand is the kit? What are its directions? Post that info here and we can steer you into a reasonably quick "Octalefest".

[castroaamp21]

I am not sure of the brand, and it came with not directions, but it says this on the top: Contains Light dry malt extract, wheat malt extract, amber dry malt extract, and malto-dextrin with Hallertauer Hop Pellets for bittering.

That is word for word what it says on a sticker on the top. I received this kit from a friend of mine when he gave up on his homebrewing. He gave up do to time issues. I am now out of touch with him, so I have no futher info on this kit, but maybe I have givin someone enough to go off of. I will have to wait a week or so before I start my brew because I am moving. so it will give me a little time to gether info. anything you got would be a great help, thanks again!

[BathroomBrew]

I made the Winky Dinky Marzen out of the Joy of homebrewing, It was a very easy Octoberfest beer that turned out excellent.

I ended up doing the primary @ 60* forw 10 days, the secondary @33* for 3 weeks, and keg conditioned @ 60* for 2 weeks.

It's nice having a basement that is fully underground, the point where the water pipes come into the house is surounded by a closet which make it the perfect dark room for aging. Very consistant 56-60*

[castroaamp21]

hey, is that out of the first verison, or the revised version of the joy of homebrewing? did you bottle any?

[fatboy570]

castro, my apologies for not getting back to you. I will make it a point to call my friend from Verona tomorrow. As far as your Oktoberfest kit, if your friend is from the Springfield area, the kit may be from The Home Brewery in Ozark. Once again, I apologize, and will find out something in the next few days

[BathroomBrew]

Originally posted by castroaamp21
hey, is that out of the first verison, or the revised version of the joy of homebrewing? did you bottle any?

3rd edition, and i kegged it.

Funny thing, I decdided to have a little e party to celebrate my 1st batches being kegged, Low and behold i mixed up the kegs because i didn't have them marked yet. One was the HeinieStella the other being the Marzen. Heiniestella was about 4.5%, Marzen 7% so between 4 guys killing off a 5 gal keg, we got pretty trashed very quickly. It wasn't till i taped the other keg the next day that i notice i had served the Marzen instead of the Heiniestella like i had planned to. Oh well, it was still enjoyed greatly by all.

[castroaamp21]

well it has been a long time but i have bottle my first batch. i went with a scots brown ale, and it turned out great! i had to sneak a little taste after measuring the gravity. i think it will be about ten days before i start drinking any, but i might give in and drink one. i told my self the next brew i drink will be my own, and i dont know if i can wait that long. i also brewed the octoberfest about the same time i did the ale. i have just start the secondary fermention and it is looking good there as well. it has been a real learning experiance, and to be honest, i think im hooked. I am now wondering what the next step to try is, or if i should keep using the same type of kits for a few more brews before i try anything new. well thanks to all of you for walking me through this.

[Vienna Lager]

You are welcome.

[BrewDog]

Any time. Get another brew started, and we'll be here to help with any questions you have.