Has anyone tried AB's new stout?

[SeaPA]

Was at Busch Gardens yesterday with wifey & the screamer. Of course, I made my way to the hospitality house (hey, bad beer is better than NO beer when you're at an amusement park surrounded by 800 million kids running around yelling). Lo & behold, they are passing out samples of their newest product, "Bare Knuckle Stout." I had not heard that AB was entering the stout market & was kind of surprised.
Haven't seen or heard anything about it anywhere.

I love a good stout. The Bare Knuckle was ok - not great but ok. Kinda like you'd expect from an AB product - a bit bland. Not much of a bite like I expect from a stout.

Bottom line - If I'm somewhere that serves nothing but AB products, I'd drink it before any of their other offerings. But given a choice, I'll stick to Guinness.

[chazwicke]

It's interesting that a major brewer like AB can only come up with an "OK" stout when another major brewer can and does make a fine stout. That major brewer is Guinness. In fact they make many versions of their famous brew and the ones that I have tasted have been quite tasty. Just goes to show that some macros can do it right!

[SeaPA]

Chaz,
I think AB could come up with a fine stout if they chose to do so. But they choose to gear all of their products to "mass appeal" so they produce a number of bland, tasteless, watered down products that will appeal to the average "Joe SixPack." Guinness, and other beers with flavor, don't appeal to most typical americans.

Sad.

[S.F.B.]

I am actually surprised that AB could come up with a beer that someone describes as O.K. Not only do they brew for mass appeal. They also brew for the highest profit margin they can get.

Cheap ingredients = O.K. brew.

[Brownbeard]

I would wager that AB does not use cheap ingredients. If they turned their brewers loose, I am sure they could make awesome brews. But people the world over prefer bland beer. I say the world over because AB is the number one selling brewer in the UK as well as many other countries. I drink the Amber Bock when I go to hockey games, because it is the only non-lite brew to drink. I have a friend who is a manager at an AB distributor. Whenever we go to their house it is all AB products. I always have the amber bock there as well. It is OK. I can drink OK beer for a night, it doesn't kill me. I wonder if all the people who call for the head of AB scream so hard for the death of McDonalads too. It is the same thing. I do not buy AB products, but there is a whole world full of people who love the crap.

[chazwicke]

I agree with Brownbeard that they do buy and use some of the finest ingredients available. In fact, I have heard that they "control" some of the best hop fields. The problem is, as stated on this board, that they make bland beer to make it more marketable. They keep any given flavor profile low so as not to offend anyone. The IBUs are 10 and the taste threshold for hops is 12. So I prefer to avoid their beer at all costs. I guess I would rather not drink anything than to stoop to bad beer. I also avoid McDonalds and Pizza Hut and the like although my 17 year old son is a big patron!

[toneyc]

Down with AB!
Down with McDonald's!
Down with Pizza Hut!

What is this "Amber Bock" of which you speak?

:)
Toney.

[kevin]

I think amber bock is Michelob

[Jeff]

AB may use excellent ingrediants, but aren't they known for using adjuncts such as corn and rice to supplement the barley and make the production cost cheaper?

[hops99]

Yes and Yes.

Did anyone hear about the lawsuit AB slapped some small brewer in New Hampshire with earlier this year? Apparently, the brewery was marketing "Billy Budd Ale", of Melville fame, of course, and AB thought it was infringing on the name recognition of Budweiser and Bud Light.

I'm not sure how it turned out, or if it's been resolved yet, but crap like this serves as the impetus for me to boycott AB, irrespective of whether or not they use good ingredients. AB truly is the evil empire....

[S.F.B.]

I don't drink AB, I don't eat at McDonald's and I definitely will not be seen at a Pizza Hut except to use the bathroom.

I am sure, if turned loose, those brewers could make an excellent beer. I don't like their products because, as Monty Python put it, "it's like sex in a canoe. F*@king close to water."

[hopjack13]

im surprised as hell ab would even consider making a stout...?
i wonder if it's going to come in a can?....with a widget maybe:p
i don't buy or drink ab...hurl , ralph , barf and puke!
it's not hard to choose from a selection at the soda fountain if the only beer there is, is macro swill.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by kevin
I think amber bock is Michelob

And Michelob is an AB product.

[hopjack13]

i was at the hootinany this year and they had the michalob amber bock among other a/b products. people were acting like it was a good beer....ugh.. i went to the lemonade stand.
what is the style in which a bock is brewed ? i think i had a shinerbock once long ago, are they bottom feeders?
also i think i had a bock a few weeks ago at a ba gathering, can't remember the name, but the glass came to a point on the bottom so you had to have a special wooden coaster to place it in. i think it started with an L? anyone know what im talking about?

[steveh]

Originally posted by hopjack13
i was at the hootinany this year and they had the michalob amber bock among other a/b products. people were acting like it was a good beer....ugh.. i went to the lemonade stand.

I'd have followed you...

what is the style in which a bock is brewed ?

It is brewed in the Bock style (away from A/B, that is), Bocks are part of the Lager limb of the beer family tree.

i think i had a shinerbock once long ago, are they bottom feeders?

Easy with that, I thought we finally rid this forum of prejudice toward (good/real) lager?

also i think i had a bock a few weeks ago at a ba gathering, can't remember the name, but the glass came to a point on the bottom so you had to have a special wooden coaster to place it in. i think it started with an L? anyone know what im talking about?

Hmm, that's an odd one. Bocks are usually served in a Krug or Mass, or possibly a nice, tall half-liter glass - all common to Southern Germany. Pilsners are usually served in a glass that comes to a point at the bottom, this to allow the higher carbonation to bring the hop and malt nose to the wider mouth of the glass.

S.

[hopjack13]

Originally posted by steveh
Easy with that, I thought we finally rid this forum of prejudice toward (good/real) lager?

uhh.... sorry, i ment bottom fermented ;)
im almost positive it was a bock.....from theU.K. perhaps...
i was pretty good but i was more impressed with the glass and coaster then anything.... the round cone shaped bottom of the glass wouldn't let you set it down anywhere other then your coaster which was wooden and had a speacial groove cut in it just for the glass....good way to keep track of your beer! if you glued the coaster to the table you'd never lose it!

[Brownbeard]

I guess I am not so refined (read snobbish) that I will turn down free cold beer from a friend in their home. If you did that to me, I would be insulted. I do not offer those beverages in my own home, we only have good beer. But I am sure there are beers that I consider good that many of you would turn your refined noses at. I always have a case of Leinekugels on hand for the macro drinkers and have no problem drinking it myself. I have heard many times that life is too short for cheap beer. I have always said that life is too short for missed opportunities. Hell, I have no problem drinking a free cold Budweiser. Unlike many people here though, I think going out and getting drunk for the sake of getting drunk is quite acceptable.

[bigmf]

I find club soda to be a nice refreshing drink once in a while. I find the difference between club soda and Budweiser to be nearly imperceptable. So i would have to agree with brownbeard.

M.

[Brownbeard]

It is not that I would choose Budweiser if I had better options, but if it what is there...

[chazwicke]

I have no problem with anyone doing that either, although I don't prefer it for myself. It may be an age thing. I used to do it frequently in my early 20s. Now I usually enjoy one or two decent beers at a time. If there is a festival I will drink more however, usually in smaller taster quantities. Call me a snob but I don't view budweiser as a missed opportunity.

[Brownbeard]

Ok, here is a for instance. Two weeks ago I went to my college homecoming. I took quite a few homebrews, but they were gone early on. My buddy brought several cases of Budweiser. At the point it came to drinking Bud with my jackasses or being the guy not drinking, I cracked open a Bud and the party kept going. I didn't complain about it, I wasn't even dissapointed. We had a great time and I drank the better part of a 12 pack of Bud. I paid for it the next morning, but a Mt. Dew and a few McDonald's breakfast burritos and I was fine. When we got back to my house and they asked if I wanted some of the left over Bud, I politely declined. Had I decided to quit drinking that night, I may not have had the wild night I did, with a group of guys that I get to see anually. Life is too short for missed opportunities.

[bigmf]

Again, I agree with much of what has been said. If I am in the mood for beer, an unnamed Macrobrewery standard north american lager would not be my first choice. I would try to avoid any such beer if there is a choice. Mainly because I like the taste of beer. However, if I am on the golf course and the choices at the stand are Molson Canadian, Labbat's Blue and Coor's Light, I'll take one from there rather than going to the club house or waiting until the end of the round.

I don't think people who would do otherwise to be snobs, but sometimes I do wonder whether they find the beer to be offensive. I find those types of beer to be sterile and tasteless, but not in anyway repellant.

M.

[chazwicke]

I have an annual camping trip with some of my old buds coming up next month. I intend to take plenty of Guinness widget cans and a trusty beer glass. I am certain there will be a fair amount of imbibing and that is one of the reasons I am taking the Guinness as it has a slightly lower alcohol content. Nothing is better than sitting around a roaring campfire on a the cold fall night enjoying a good brew and maybe a nice tobacco in my pipe or a decent cigar. I can definitely see your point if you were to run out of good beer. I will be certain to bring suffient quantities. Fortunately I think most of my friends enjoy decent brews as well and will undoubtably have good beers with them should I run out.

[hopjack13]

at my wedding reception we had good beer, sn ,fullers, chimay ect. and when that ran out a old friend showed up with a case of bud...? we drank together many times in my early 20's and it wasn't always good beer . back then i didn't know any better and we had a lot of good times. he offerd me a bud, and i thought ugh! but i didn't want to insult him by acting like i was too good for him and his beer. as he is a very dear friend , i excepted it humbly , gawd!!! i couldn't stand the taste. i found it to be an offensive ,appalling, awful, dreadful, frightful, horrible, horrific beer. i took maybe two drinks and just held it for an hour or so before finding someplace to dump it where he wouldn't see........then i moved over to the champagne and orange juice.

[steveh]

It's not even so much a snobbish thing - we've also been discussing how detrimental A/B is to the beer community with some of its business tactics - aside from just plain making bad beer. And Brownbeard, that's the better mantra: "Life's too short to drink BAD beer." I pay $9.99 for a 12 pack of Dinkel-Acker Pils - a beer head and shoulders above Bud in quality.

Aside from all that, Budweiser literally makes me ill when I drink it, and I *have* turned it down - many times.

In the position of your party, I'd have been sure that I had brought enough of what *I* would want to drink in order to avoid the swill - sound like a plan I've instituted before? Most definitely.

The other tactic I've developed over the years is educating my friends on good beer. Just about everyone I hang out with enjoys good beer, and we rarely have a get-together where there's (only) bad beer to be had.

I attended the wedding of a former co-worker over the summer. He and his groomsmen are fervent Lite drinkers, I figured we would have to suffer thru. Because the groom knew his fellow co-workers (as well as himself now and again) enjoyed Guinness, he had planned for a special stash of Guinness Pub Draught cans for us. Another successful convert.

S.

[skahtboi]

While I echo many of the sentiments shared by Brownbeard about missed opportunities, I still go to great lengths to avoid AB brews. Not only because of the absence of flavor, but primarily because of AB's meglomanical desire to control the entire adult beverage market. Hence their experimentations with Hefe's and Bocks under the Michelob name. They have plenty of money, and don't need any of mine, either directly, through purchase, or indirectly, by comsuming whatever free AB product is tossed my way.

Proof of AB's meglomaniacal tendencies; back in early 90's, Spoetzel brewery in Shiner, TX, retooled and redeveloped from the ground up. They "went back" to supposed original recipes, and started producing Shiner Blonde and Shiner Bock initially. Shiner Bock was such a statewide (and eventually national) success that AB, seeing the interloping into "their" market (the BEER market), retaliated by releasing a beer called Ziegenbock, complete with the ram's head logo, bright yellow label, and a state of Texas outline, to try to steal back the Texas beer market! For all of you non-Texas residents, you can learn more about AB's ZB here:
http://www.ziegenbock.com

That's all I got to say about that!

[hopjack13]

here here or is it hear hear....
anyway
DOWN WITH THE EVIL EMPIRE!!!!

[hops99]

I second that motion...

[steveh]

Originally posted by skahtboi For all of you non-Texas residents, you can learn more about AB's ZB here: http://www.ziegenbock.com

That's all I got to say about that!

While I'd defend the use of a goat's head on any bock beer (it's been tradition for centuries), Ziegenbock is so obviously a rip-off in order to cash in on Shiner's popularity that it *has* to be illegal somehow. If not illegal, it's most certainly underhanded and unbelievably trashy marketing. Amazing gaul on A/B's part.

I hope the Shiner drinkers and good beer enthusiasts recognize the wolf in sheep's clothing and the sales of Ziegen have fallen through the floor.

S.

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by S.F.B.
I don't drink AB, I don't eat at McDonald's and I definitely will not be seen at a Pizza Hut except to use the bathroom.

I am sure, if turned loose, those brewers could make an excellent beer. I don't like their products because, as Monty Python put it, "it's like sex in a canoe. F*@king close to water."

...ever hear their Australian table wine sketch:

"Château Blue, too, has won many prizes; not least for its taste, and its lingering afterburn.

Old Smokey 1968 has been compared favourably to a Welsh claret, whilst the Australian Wino Society thoroughly recommends a 1970 Coq du Rod Laver, which, believe me, has a kick on it like a mule: 8 bottles of this and you're really finished. At the opening of the Sydney Bridge Club, they were fishing them out of the main sewers every half an hour.

Of the sparkling wines, the most famous is Perth Pink. This is a bottle with a message in, and the message is 'beware'. This is not a wine for drinking, this is a wine for laying down and avoiding.

Another good fighting wine is Melbourne Old-and-Yellow, which is particularly heavy and should be used only for hand-to-hand combat.

Quite the reverse is true of Château Chunder, which is an appellation contrôlée, specially grown for those keen on regurgitation; a fine wine which really opens up the sluices at both ends.

Real emetic fans will also go for a Hobart Muddy, and a prize winning Cuivre Reserve Château Bottled Nuit San Wogga Wogga, which has a bouquet like an aborigine's armpit. "

Pretty much sums up most "Macrobrews"
:D

[davesarman]

The other day I was wondering if the Evil Empire (we're talking beer here so it must be A-B, if we're talking baseball that would be the Yankees :D ) would put out a stout for no other reason than to compete with Guiness, who is about as big an empire as A-B. Now I see that they have. What I also find interesting is that they've called it "Bare Knuckle". (Playing on the image of rowdy Irish guys fighting outside a bar) Obviously they have to market this beer to the uneducated that subscribe to the theory that "real men" drink crap beer, are obnoxious, etc., etc., we've all seen those commercials. This name invokes a tough guy image that will appeal to the typical A-B consumer. You know they couldn't have gone with the Irish heritage theme or some Gaelic phrase...Well, I guess we'll see how successful they are with it. Will they serve it nitro? Ha, bet not! This seems like a beer that the consumer will have to have the label showing to show what a tough guy he is...I love dissecting the marketing of these guys....I could be wrong here, but I don't think so....(maybe we should give someone that drinks a Bare Knuckle a bottle of Dogfish Head World Wide Stout!)

[chazwicke]

Just picked up a sixer of Victory Storm King Imperial Stout, Have not yet tried it.

[hopjack13]

stormking mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
thats a beautiful beautiful beer!!!

[davesarman]

chazwicke, I saw your post this morning before I went to the beer store and I decided to pick myself up a sixer as well. I'll have one tonight and post my thoughts....I've had other Victory beers before (Hopdevil, Golden Monkey, Old Horizontal) and thought they were all very impressive, so my expectations are high....

[wortchillergoal]

I whis I had seen this thread eailer. I believe that I had that AB stout about 8 years ago. I think it was amyuch better beer than AB choses to market. Now, I don't know if this was the excat same stout that I was given. As I have said before. I think the stout from AB I had would have been a good beer to start someone down the path to better beer.

There have been a couple threads where I have expressed my views on AB, I like calling them the Evil Empire, so I won't rant here again. I will just say that they do have the best ingreidents available to them.

[davesarman]

My thoughts on the Storm King:
Roasty malty aroma. Pours nearly black with a thick, craggy, tan head. I bought this today (Nov.1) and it must have been a fresh shipment as the label says it was bottled a mere 9 days ago! Huge body and mouthfeel. Initial hit of hops gradually lends its way to a miriad of other flavors. The roated malt is prevalent. Raisin, figs, mincemeat pie...wonderfully complex. The alcohol is warming but not overly so. This beer will get you through most any November or December evening! It's reputation is truly deserved! I'm sure A-B's stout could measure up to this!
:rolleyes: (ya, right!)

[steveh]

Originally posted by davesarman
My thoughts on the Storm King:

Dave, you should post this over at tasting notes too. Just for those looking for a particular review.

S.

[SeaPA]

Originally posted by davesarman
maybe we should give someone that drinks a Bare Knuckle a bottle of Dogfish Head World Wide Stout!)

I am all in favor of that idea. Do you need my mailing address? I drank TWO of them!

[hopjack13]

i guess i could start drinking the bare knuckle if someone would send me some dfh world wide...is that the 18% or the 23%?

[hnrblbrbrn]

Old Engine Oil was one my wife picked up for me. I can't remember the brewer, but it had the tough guy look and name. Only time I've seen a stout or porter darker than Guinness. And the head was very brown. Too bad it was sold singly.

As for Amber Bock, the only time I threw away a 6-pack after a partial bottle.

My friends all insist on Bud or <shudder> Lites. I'll still drink it with them since when they drink with me they'll get anything but. I think that Lites are absolutely evil, up there with weak coffee. I've offered to make lites for friends by throwing in some ice. They didn't appreciate those remarks.

[steveh]

Originally posted by hnrblbrbrn
Old Engine Oil was one my wife picked up for me. I can't remember the brewer, but it had the tough guy look and name. Only time I've seen a stout or porter darker than Guinness. And the head was very brown. Too bad it was sold singly.

It's from the Harviestoun Brewery in Scotland - it was one of the featured beers from Michael Jackson's World Beer Tour (beer of the month club) a few months back. I enjoyed it a great deal.

S.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by steveh
It's from the Harviestoun Brewery in Scotland - it was one of the featured beers from Michael Jackson's World Beer Tour (beer of the month club) a few months back. I enjoyed it a great deal.

S.

Harviestoun Makes some mighty fine beers. Bitter & Twisted and Schiehallen (I know I messed up the spelling on that one).

[ron]

Originally posted by chazwicke
It's interesting that a major brewer like AB can only come up with an "OK" stout when another major brewer can and does make a fine stout. That major brewer is Guinness. In fact they make many versions of their famous brew and the ones that I have tasted have been quite tasty.

A-B could, if marketing told them that's what they should brew.

One of the biggest reasons that macros are so successful is that they produce to same, bland stuff all the time. Kind of like McDonald's. You always know what that quarter pounder is going to taste like.

The macros tend to market to the drinkers whose sole purpose is to consume alcohol, rather than those of us who prefer to consume something alcoholic that also tastes good.

It is nice to see that some macros, Harp and Guinness, for instance, still adhere to quality brewing standards. It's like the old adage, "if you build it, they will come."

[Bryant]

I haven't seen the stout yet, but I will try it. I am not surprised AB is making it. The Michelob division makes the Amber Bock (which compared to the macro lagers is two giant steps up from the yellow lagers they sell, though you won't find it in my fridge) and black and tan etc. I try EVERYTHING that comes out new though, even the macro stuff. I can't help myself.
Having said all of that, I have to agree with Brownbeard's opinions. Though I am not a heavy drinker (once in a blue moon I get the 'ol wild hair up my...... you know the drill) since my late 20s and prefer quality over quantity, the reason I am at this board is because I LOVE BEER. Ten out of ten times, unless I'm out in the heat cutting my grass or something, I will choose Budweiser over water if I want a beer.
Luckily, the only time I have to choose only between the macro swills are during special events and such but hey, during concerts or while at theme parks etc. I'll drink the Bud/Miller/Coors etc. I don't hold it against anyone who has a different opinion but that is simply mine.
As far as AB using cheap ingredients, I don't think that is true and their brewmasters are "masters." Budweiser tastes very boring, but it tastes consistantly the "same" boring everytime. As much beer as they brew, I find it amazing that the consistancy is as high as it is.
Although it sounds like I am taking sides with AB, I am actually not, but rather speaking the truth about the beer giants. AB makes what the American general public wants. Jimbob drinks Bud, so his buddy Eugene drinks Bud because he thinks Jimbob is cool. The common American public is obcessed with being popular and being "in." Sccer Moms with the land yacht GMC suburbans they can't even park and people drinking "silver bullets" or whatever are done for the exact same reason. When "normal" Americans decide to get a since of self-identity, many will be more open to trying new things including "other" beers.

Bryant

[steveh]

But Bryant, that's everything this board is against!

We're all about educating the public on just what they're missing, throwing off the hum-drum shackles of what big business tells us "everyone" wants. Bull.

Rise up! Throw down that swill, pick up a REAL beer!

Okay - rant over, off to work. Happy Friday!

S.

[chazwicke]

One point that I need to make about all this, and this pertains only to me, is that I really have not had any major macro beer in such a long, long time that I am beginning to think maybe I should tone down my attacks. It may not truly be fair for me to condemn products that I have not tasted in decades. (I have had macro Guinness and Bass. And I like Guinness.) I know I promised to drink a PBR and give it an honest open minded appraisal and I will. Soon. But I want to apologize if I have seemed too judgmental or pompus in my disdain for the macro brands. I hope I have not offended those macro drinkers.

[iluvbeer]

Ron said,
"It is nice to see that some macros, Harp and Guinness, for instance, still adhere to quality brewing standards. It's like the old adage, "if you build it, they will come."

Well said Ron!
I know that I can always fall back on Guinness and Harp for this reason.

They also don't have sexist advertising that alienates their female consumers.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by hops99
Yes and Yes.

Did anyone hear about the lawsuit AB slapped some small brewer in New Hampshire with earlier this year? Apparently, the brewery was marketing "Billy Budd Ale", of Melville fame, of course, and AB thought it was infringing on the name recognition of Budweiser and Bud Light.

I'm not sure how it turned out, or if it's been resolved yet, but crap like this serves as the impetus for me to boycott AB, irrespective of whether or not they use good ingredients. AB truly is the evil empire....

I read that AB won the suit.

[bigmf]

Originally posted by chazwicke
One point that I need to make about all this, and this pertains only to me, is that I really have not had any major macro beer in such a long, long time that I am beginning to think maybe I should tone down my attacks. It may not truly be fair for me to condemn products that I have not tasted in decades. (I have had macro Guinness and Bass. And I like Guinness.) I know I promised to drink a PBR and give it an honest open minded appraisal and I will. Soon. But I want to apologize if I have seemed too judgmental or pompus in my disdain for the macro brands. I hope I have not offended those macro drinkers.

I stongly doubt that you offended anyone. I think many people here respect your opinion.

I have, in the past, defended macro stuff. I think I will stop this because I don't recall ever having an american budweiser. I have defended Macros based on the Canadian breweries, Molson and Labatt's. I think these are not comparable to the American macros, so I think I may tone it down a little as well.

(Although I'll still have a macro lager when choices are slim.)

M.

[Bryant]

Originally posted by steveh
But Bryant, that's everything this board is against!

We're all about educating the public on just what they're missing, throwing off the hum-drum shackles of what big business tells us "everyone" wants. Bull.

Rise up! Throw down that swill, pick up a REAL beer!

Okay - rant over, off to work. Happy Friday!

S.

I am doing my best here as well. You won't find Bud in my house (unless it belongs to someone else) but one of my points is that I don't absolutely despise Budweiser/Coors etc. I consider myself a "beer enthusiast" but certainly not a "beer snob." I support my local brewpub as much as I can and support quality beers from brewers that care about quality and distinction in their product. Still if I want a beer and the only thing available is the macro stuff, I'll drink a Killians, Amber Bock or even a Budweiser if that's all I have to choose from. I am fortunate enough that I am not in that situation often though.

Bryant

[Bryant]

Originally posted by chazwicke
One point that I need to make about all this, and this pertains only to me, is that I really have not had any major macro beer in such a long, long time that I am beginning to think maybe I should tone down my attacks. It may not truly be fair for me to condemn products that I have not tasted in decades. (I have had macro Guinness and Bass. And I like Guinness.) I know I promised to drink a PBR and give it an honest open minded appraisal and I will. Soon. But I want to apologize if I have seemed too judgmental or pompus in my disdain for the macro brands. I hope I have not offended those macro drinkers.

Ha ha ha I doubt you will find many macro drinkers here. I do drink Harp which is certainly a macro, but a high quality one.

You aren't missing anything not drinking that stuff though. I am the type that has to "try" every new beer I see, micro, brewpub, macro or a buddies homebrew.... The only good thing that has come out of trying the macros is the fact that I have been in situations a couple of times where Killian's Red and Amber Bock (outdoor concerts) were the most "exotic" beer that was served. Both are a far cry from what I prefer, but also considably better than the industry standards.

Bryant

[Bryant]

Originally posted by iluvbeer
Ron said,
"It is nice to see that some macros, Harp and Guinness, for instance, still adhere to quality brewing standards. It's like the old adage, "if you build it, they will come."

Well said Ron!
I know that I can always fall back on Guinness and Harp for this reason.

They also don't have sexist advertising that alienates their female consumers.

I agree. Though Guinness is not one of my favorite stouts I enjoy it, but Harp is one of my favorite lagers ever. I would love to try a true Irish Harp one day. >:P~ Guinness brewery is a "craft macro" and my hat is off to them.

Bryant

[ron]

Which reminds me, I am drinking a Bass right now and spent the morning working on a brown ale that is now fermenting happily downstairs.