Rolling Rock?

[mickstepp]

You've got to be kidding! What's with the crummy macro in the battle of the beers?

[thomasgibson]

I agree, a very weak beer. Little taste or hops flavor.

[bobbylayne]

Yeah, it's not bad when compared with the other macros but it has no business in a battle of the beers tourney.

[wawood]

Precisely why it was roundly smoked.

[BucksBrew]

I saw a friend of mine at a class reunion and found out he lives literally right around the corner from me. He just finished a basement bar and bought a keg. He wants me to come over for a few, I said no problem. I asked him what he bought, and he said Rolling Rock.

Now that's a problem! That beer stinks! I think I'll go in the a.m. and revisit when that keg is gone! haha and that's my two cents!

[warmstorage]

other crappy macros that, happily, also got roundly smoked:

J.W. Dundee's Honey Brown 33%
Michelob AmberBock 24% (of course, Shiner Bock is no superstar)

here are two more which, while not as terrible as those above, are ridiculously overrated, and are basically weak, overmarketed macros:

Sam Adams Boston Lager 49%
Breckenridge Avalanche Amber 54%

i only bother with either if i'm in the airport and desperate (has anyone else noticed that Spam Adams seems to have taken over airport bars lately? i've spied in the last month at Dulles, Detroit, Minneapolis, Denver, and Sacramento.)

and while i'm at it, i might as well burn my Colorado bridges:
Fat Tire 61% (which sadly beat Magic Hat No. 9 39%)

Flat Tire is okay, i guess, but relatively boring, arguably the worst beer an otherwise great brewery makes (i'm not a big fan of Blue Paddle or Porch Swing, either, but that may be stylistic).

much like Spam Adams, i think Flat Tire is designed to appeal largely to a barely upscale market that thinks it's outgrown Coors Light, but hasn't yet looked in to the overwhlemingly diverse and exciting world of real beer.

-dan

[steveh]

Originally posted by warmstorage
other crappy macros that, happily, also got roundly smoked:

i only bother with either if i'm in the airport and desperate (has anyone else noticed that Spam Adams seems to have taken over airport bars lately? i've spied in the last month at Dulles, Detroit, Minneapolis, Denver, and Sacramento.)


At the Pittsburgh airport, Sam actually has a whole "pub" serving nothing but Sam products. Fortunately, they had some of the other styles than just the Boston Lager stand-by (sorry - no pun intended), so it made for a pleasant wait for my flight.

Thanks for pointing out just how lackluster Fat Tire is, I thought maybe it was just me. I visited some friends in Denver a while back and they said I just HAD to try this beer. While it wasn't offensive or bad, I wasn't bowled over either.

S.

[thomasgibson]

Warmstorage, you have good taste in beer. I thought that Spam Adams(good play on name) is terrible beer all around.

[warmstorage]

thomasgibson:
Warmstorage, you have good taste in beer. I thought that Spam Adams(good play on name) is terrible beer all around.

thanks!

steveh:
At the Pittsburgh airport, Sam actually has a whole "pub" serving nothing but Sam products. Fortunately, they had some of the other styles than just the Boston Lager stand-by (sorry - no pun intended), so it made for a pleasant wait for my flight.

well, i want to ride both horses here, so: i actually agree with both of you. Spam Adams makes a few beers that, if faced with nothing else but Coors Slight (i'm on a roll now!) and other such garbage, could make for a more pleasant airport stay than otherwise. and yes, steveh, several of these airport examples have been Spam "brewpubs" (which is a complete abuse of the word, but that's for another post). unfortunately, the ones i tried only had standard crap, and one "special": at Washington-National it was a decent holiday ale, but decent only relative to being the only beer in the Northwest (old) departures terminal. at MSP, similar, etc.

that said: of Spam's 8 year-round beers, only the Triple Bock is any good (and boy, is it good, but also $3.50 to $6.00 for a 8-ounce bottle). the IPA and Pale Ale are affronts to otherwise proud styles, the Cherry Wheat is only marginally drinkable on tap (which i've only ever seen at the Spam "pub" near the downtown Boston Public Library, on... Boylston? back in about 1998). ALL of the others (see http://www.samadams.com/beer/styles/ ) range between bad and TERRIBLE.

of the seasonals, Winter, Spring, and Summer are all weak, pasty, harsh offerings, and every time i've had them taste like wet aluminum. the Double Bock is drinkable, but barely, and not as good as just about any other example of the style i've had (maybe 20 or 30 of them). the Octoberfest (sic.) is a truly offensive offering given the proud history of this style. and the new focus on Spam Light exemplifies the sales-first mentality of this disgusting company.

finally, as i noted before, the Millennium is incredible, but it's strictly a boutique style, and i've only been able to have it at festivals (GABF, and the Great Alaska Beer & Barleywine Festival). Spam's web page notes: "There are only 3,000 bottles of Samuel Adams Millennium, and each is signed and numbered by Koch. A bottle of Samuel Adams Millennium costs about two hundred dollars." i also had an amazing, new version at GABF this year, but don't recall the name. great stuff, to be sure: if only they put as much effort into their standard shelf-filling schlock.

and finally:
steveh:
Thanks for pointing out just how lackluster Fat Tire is
it's my pleasure! and for the record, i live in Denver, where it unjustly sells well, despite the huge local availability of truly great beer. i should note that New Belgium makes some amazing beers: the Sunshine Wheat, a wit-bier style (which long ago converted my best friend from a non-beer drinker to a true beer fiend), rocks, as do their Belgian styles: Abbey, and Trippel; the Two Cherry Ale is crisp and delightful, as is the Frambozen. the 1554 Brussels Black Ale is good in style, although not my favorite.

and lots of people, here and elsewhere, rave about how great Flatty is: but then again, remember the stories about how people used to make x-country pilgrimages for Coors, uh, original. puke.

-Warmstorage,
who will now get off his barstool...

[cyanide]

I'd rather the US be taken over by Sam Adams, Rolling Rock and other slightly better beers, then the stuff that's out there now. Besides, maybe if it gets popular, it will inspire the American public to expect more from beer.

I'd rather go into an airport bar and grab a Rolling Rock than a Bud Light anyday.

I don't think Sam Adams make the best beer in the world, but I think their stuff is good, the flavors are complex enough to be interesting and its very consistent.

[chazwicke]

Sam Adams and Fat tire are "stepping Stone" beers. They gently lull the Bud drinkers toward the world of real beer. Thank Fat Tire for the success of New Belgium. Most brew pubs offer a similar beer to attract the widest possible audience thus making it possible and affordable to offer the rest of us other brews in their line that actually have complexity and flavor. So, I don't object to these beers being offered and sometimes I even recommend them to my Coors and Miller light drinking associates in hopes that they will eventually make their way to the world of decent beer. Truth is, most of my friends wouldn't touch the stuff.

[Richard English]

It's a question of educating the palate. Chemical fizz beers are brewed to be very bland and easy to drink. They have so little flavour when drunk ice cold that it is easy to drink them. The fact that they give those who drink them a splitting headache and raging dispepsia is a side-effect which most of their fans assume (wrongly) is something that happens with beer.

Good beers have a taste and this will be a shock to the immature palate - just as a good Burgundy will be a shock to palate of a winedrinker who has only ever tried Leibrfaumilche.

However, I have converted many simply by persuading them to "force down" a few Real Ales. After the first shock of the strong flavour has gone and their palates have adjusted they can usually manage to spend the evening on the good stuff.

Then, the next morning when they awake with no trace of a chemically-induced hangover, even the most sceptical is usually convinced.

[chazwicke]

I agree about the "chemical Fizz" Beers. It is sad that AB buys and uses some of the finest quality ingredients in thier products and then wont let you taste them. I have heard that they use top quality hops in Budweiser only to hop it to 10 IBUs and the taste threshold for hops is 12 IBUs! All part of the grand scheme to "offend no one" with any particular flavor. This "blandification" all started as a result of World War II and the shortages of ingredients at the time. In the US women were just beginning to be a part of the drink buying public and got used to the lighter beers. Then came the mass marketers who tried to make beers that would appeal to the widest possible market and offend no one. Hence, the removal of all flavor. Thank god for Homebrewing in the 70s, what I consider the low point, Schlitz had a huge market share being the number 2 brewer in the country. They had a team of efficentcy experts who took the emphasis off the taste and changed the formula with thoughts of saving money. The public noticed the change and schlitz lost in a big way losing even loyal schlitz drinkers and slipped to almost oblivian. The Micro revolution has been great and I believe that the really good brewers will survive and be around while others trying to hop on the fad did not. Now the battle is for shelf space. That is why I always try to support the local brewery as long as they make good beer.

[Quoodle]

Honestly, any beer in a green bottle should not be rated. Do marketers ever consider what happens to beer in a backlit bar fridge in the neighbourhood bar?

I am astounded at the beer knowledge displayed in this forum
when it comes to branding. Contributers have vast streams of knowledge about so many beers. I drink 99% homebrew and only taste beers when I am out in restaurants. However the selection there is so limited (fizzy) that I often go for a single malt after trying one or two beers from my youth. I am trying to find beers I read about on this forum but the selection in many areas is limited

I put this down to the almighty $. When price is considered by any business (as it always is) then the low budget will always replace the costlier, and this never leads to improved quality but convenient blandness. I used to hope beyond hope that this was not the case, but consider starbucks, hersheys chocolate and taco bell - I won't even mention AB except in initials _ I thank God (and I know he/she drank) - for CAMRA and the few real ales I can find -

can anyone start a belgian ale rating system / or better yet a hop mixture rating section

[chazwicke]

CAMRA is an excellent organization and I would encourage everyone to join whether they live in Britian or not. I am a member and I live in the USA. I do travel to the UK though. This organization holds a lot of clout and lobbying power and is responsible for saving cask ales. I only wish we had more of them here. Unfortunately our culture is to buy bottled beer to take out and not to drink in pubs. Our bars and taverns are just not the same as drinking in a pub.

[barley ben]

Our bars and taverns are just not the same as drinking in a pub.

I think that all the time. Why can't the US seem to get that kind of atmoshere. It seem that the only way you can go and drink quality beer is going to a brewpub, which is more of a restraunt setting based around beer or go to the not so local bar that has a good selection and you still are swamped by people that are just there to be drunk and rowdy. Then you still have the problem of getting home with drivers liscense still good. Laws now-a-days are getting so strict that 2 drinks and your hoping a cop doesn't get ya. It would be so nice to have nice local pubs on the street corners that you can stop by, have a few QUALITY pints and walk a half a block home.

Just so I don't p@ss anybody off, I am in no way insulting brewpubs. I do really enjoy them. They are almost the only way I get to have good beer from tap.

[Richard English]

As a life member of CAMRA I have to agree 100%.

Go to www.camra.org to join

[Quoodle]

Cheers to chaz/ I love the cask ales but they are hard to find. Luckilly I can drive 30 miles in a few diretions and get some selection from the pumps/ casks. This is a weak replacement for the idea of a 'local pub' though - more power to CAMRA

[Richard English]

In spite of its success, CAMRA is still fighting a difficult (and some believe losing) battle.

The most popular "beer" in the UK is not a cask beer; it is not a bottle-conditioned beer; it is not even a British beer. It is A-B Budweiser, aka pigswill.

A-B can spend more money on one promotional activity than CAMRA turns over it a year. It is their intention to drive all the proper brewers out of business, as they and their imitators have already done in most of the rest of the world, so that we are all forced to drink chemical fizz.

Remember, the UK is one of the most important drinks markets in the world (not just for beer but for wines and spirits too). We have a greater choice of drinks here than in any other country in the world and to get acceptance in the British market is the aim of all drinks makers; to get market leadership is a dream.

A-B have done that in a very short space of time by very clever marketing and if UK drinkers don't wake up they'll soon find that they have the choice only of Bud or Bud Lite!

[Quoodle]

I agree that CAMRA and all it stands for is in trouble against the likes of A-B. It seems to be a general trend that some are calling 'Starbuckization' to borrow an analogy from another potable. Unfortuantely it amounts to giving us a choice among bland brands in the beerstore - or in the chocolate stores, wine stores or even voting both for that matter. I am all for supporting CAMRA but my largest investment (in money and time) for a long while has been homebrewing or any local production enterprises. In the long run, I think local production and craftmanships is the only stopgap against corporate branding of everything - including beer.

[steveh]

Originally posted by barley ben
I think that all the time. Why can't the US seem to get that kind of atmosphere.

Just so I don't p@ss anybody off, I am in no way insulting brewpubs. I do really enjoy them. They are almost the only way I get to have good beer from tap.

AFA your first question, you answered it yourself before I could. Unless you live in a bigger city, with good public transportation, AND good beer bars, it's difficult to find a great pub atmosphere. The drinking and driving paranoia reaches far and wide. I enjoyed the pub atmospheres in England and Ireland when I visited, and the Bierhall/garten atmospheres in Germany and Austria as well - but I was either walking or using PT all the time.

Many have tried to transplant pubs to the U.S., what we need is to transplant an English village, or maybe a London neighborhood! Followed by some of the less uptight sensibility that seems in low supply over here. Maybe we can recreate a neighborhood and it can be our own beer lovers version of an amusement park - I'd spend a week!

On the note of brew-pubs (and this should probably go into Tasting Notes, but it seems relevant here), I sampled a cask-conditioned, hand pulled ale at Mickey Finn's in Libertyville, IL last night. They called it their "American Style Pale Ale," but I thought it rivaled many of the bitter(s) I sampled in London. Light and smooth in body, pale in color, balanced hops and malt flavor with a great dry-hopped nose (goldings?).

Alas, while Finn's has a pretty good pub atmosphere in their original pub side, and a great beer garden - they suffer from the suburban sprawl/accessible only by car (if you don't live nearby) trouble discussed above.

S.

[chazwicke]

Where do you live Quoodle? What area? And welcome to the board by the way. Many of the brewpubs that I visit do have at least one cask ale on. If I spy a hand pump when I walk in then it is always my first request. Most that I have sampled have been decent but none except maybe at the Ship Inn in New Jersey have been superior. (Ship Inn has a nice pub atmosphere too.) I am very glad that American brewers are trying hard to create cask beers and I hope that the trend continues. It is just that a routine beer for me in the UK when I visit is almost heaven. Those Brits really have it down! And I am extremely envious.

[threecb]

The Ship Inn is definitely a good choice for cask. But I'd have to say my favorite cask was at the now-defunct Gettysburg Brewing Co. -- Buford Brown. It was incredible, may it rest in pints:(

But I agree, most BPs around me have a cask offering. Some of them are pretty D good!

[Quoodle]

chaz i live north of the land of the free in South Ontario, Canada. There does not seem to be many Canucks on this bb but I love diversity and new ideas, so all the better. In the area I live there are a few craft?? brewers who are on the edge of macro but few deliver cask. I have gone the way of the homebrewer long ago but after many years consider myself an amatuer. I have mostly learned that I know very little about the heavenly drink. I do a few basic things right - for my tastes anyways - and keep it that way. I like to taste company produced beer for ideas mostly - but it often amounts to so much well, fizz. Whats a guy to do - homebrew