Crushing grain

[bigdog1218]

I'm having a hard time figuring out what a good crush should look like, so maybe you guys can tell me if this looks OK.

I don't have a mill yet, but the closest home brew store wanted 40c a lb to crush the grain so being a genius I said no. I wasn't planning on buying a mill yet because my work schedule is erratic these days. I just wanted to brew once or twice this week and when I was brewing more regularly get a mill. Thanks for any replies.

Does this work? (http://share.shutterfly.com/action/slideshow?a=67b0de21b3282903e457&auto=0&m=1&d=1175477851951)

[paulcgi]

un-authorized referrer on your link.

[dparsons]

Can't access the picture. You want grain to be broken up but not to the point of flour. You want the hull to be mostly intact so that it will form a filtering system in the mash tun.

[generalzonzo]

Originally posted by bigdog1218
closest home brew store wanted 40c a lb to crush the grain so being a genius I said no.
Does this work? (http://share.shutterfly.com/action/slideshow?a=67b0de21b3282903e457&auto=0&m=1&d=1175477851951)

For real? 40c/pound. That's crazy talk, they must not like their patrons much. Do they charge for the paper bags to carry your grains home?

[bigdog1218]

OK, here's my last try at posting an image. I was surprised about the cost to crush, since they were friendly and prices for everything else were cheaper than anything I've seen online.

[corkybstewart]

That doesn't look very well crushed at all, my stuf is much finer than that. It looks like there are lots of uncrushed grains.

[generalzonzo]

That looks pretty good to me. What did you use, the rolling pin method? As previously stated all you really want is the grain to be cracked with the insides exposed, not pulverized into flour. Did you brew with those grains yet? What was your efficiency if you did?

EDIT - Listen to Corky before me. LOL.

[generalzonzo]

Originally posted by corkybstewart
That doesn't look very well crushed at all, my stuf is much finer than that. It looks like there are lots of uncrushed grains.

Really? I was taught/told by my brewing mentor that all that is really needed was for the grains to be crushed and split so water could get inside and do its business. My LHBS makes it much more fine that that of my friends Phil's Mill single roller mill. Which look a little bit more crushed than that in the pick. Maybe I need to re-eval my grain crushing situation. Although my efficiency has been around an average of 75%?

[corkybstewart]

It's kind of hard to tell from the picture, Maybe those are intact husks and the goodies are broken out of them. I know that since I started using a drill to turn my mill my grind has been much finer and my efficiency has jumped to the point where I'm going to have to re-do my recipes. My grain ends up with a fair amount of coarse flour, but not enough that I've had any runoff or sparging problems.

[bigdog1218]

I used one of those small pasta machines, it would take awhile to crush 10 lbs, but I just want enough for a brew or two. So I want the grains cracked, the hulls intact, but no flour. See this is where I get confused because like Corky said a lot looks uncrushed, but the hulls are cracked, it just doesn't show in the picture. Is that good enough? Or should I adjust the gap so that the inside is crushed and falling out of the hull.

[BrewDog]

Personally, I think a bit of flour is ok, as long as it doesn't clog up the works. Like Corky says, have some of it greatly improves your efficiency, as long as you don't stick the mash.

<total tangent ahead>
I think this is sort of like the misinformation that the higher the octane is, the better your car will run. What you want is the LOWEST octane rating where your car doesn't knock/ping. Octane is a flame INHIBITOR. Adding it helps make the gasoline LESS ignitable, thereby preventing early ignition (the cause of pinging and knocking). High compression engines need more octane so that they don't ping (the diesel effect). You will actually get more horsepower by running the lower octane gasoline than you will with the higher octane, assuming that the engine won't knock/ping with the lower octane stuff. And, you'll save money to boot.
<end of tangent>

[Mad Scientist]

Well, if you want to buy a mill, there is a philmill up one fleabay for $25-ish, plus shipping. If you canot find, let me know, and I will track the item number down.

[twilliams1223]

Phil Mill link (http://cgi.ebay.com/BEER-BREWING-EQUIPMENT-MILL-SCALE-THERMOMETER-HOPS_W0QQitemZ160102121617QQcategoryZ146224QQssPag eNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)

[dparsons]

I'd say the crush looks good but not optimal. FYI, my LHBS grinds grain bought there for free. I've also gotten it online with a $.10 per pound charge.



BrewDog:
I was under the impression that high octane gasoline had a longer average chain length molecule. This makes it auto-ignite less easily so you don't get the pinging. It is also slighly lower in energy released.

[BrewDog]

Originally posted by dparsons
BrewDog:
I was under the impression that high octane gasoline had a longer average chain length molecule. This makes it auto-ignite less easily so you don't get the pinging. It is also slighly lower in energy released.

Yep, that's exactly right. Longer chains means less igniteable, and slightly lower energy released means you literally get less power with the higher octane gas if neither gas makes your engine ping.

[Mill Rat]

Originally posted by BrewDog
Yep, that's exactly right. Longer chains means less igniteable, and slightly lower energy released means you literally get less power with the higher octane gas if neither gas makes your engine ping.
Some engines (the more expensive ones) will advance the ignition timing to take advantage of higher-octane fuels. Getting an earlier burn without significant preignition will more than offset any negligible reduction in BTU/gallon. If you have a car with such a power plant, you should have seen something about that inthe sales literature.

If you have a more plebian powerplant, then yes, an octane higher than that required to stop preignition is a waste of money.

[dparsons]

Originally posted by Mill Rat
Some engines (the more expensive ones) will advance the ignition timing to take advantage of higher-octane fuels. Getting an earlier burn without significant preignition will more than offset any negligible reduction in BTU/gallon. If you have a car with such a power plant, you should have seen something about that inthe sales literature.

If you have a more plebian powerplant, then yes, an octane higher than that required to stop preignition is a waste of money.

Are you saying they adjust according to the fuel that is currently being run?

[BrewDog]

I can certainly understand that burning earlier will help fend off preignition. In my thermodynamics classes in college, the energy output differences we measured was significant (10% or 15%). Granted that was > 20 years ago and I'm sure that technology has much improved. However, there is the law of diminishing returns associated with sparking too early before Top Dead Center. At some point, the "backward" thrust on the piston will start to cut power, not increase it.

Back to the real topic. All I was saying is that I think there's a similarity between the mis-perceptions of octane in gas and absence of flour in your crush.

A bit of flour (kernel flour, not pulverized husk material which would introduce tannins into the boil if they are so so small that they can't be filtered out and pass right into the boil) is good because it will raise your efficiency. It is bad because it will tend to gum up your mash. There is a balance you want to achieve to get good extraction and not stick. Same with low octane. You want just enough octane to prevent knock/ping, but no more.