New toy

[dparsons]

I got a grain mill finally. I decided on a 3 roller CrankAndStein figuring the 2nd crush would give a fairly small crush size without pulverizing the grain from too much at once. I ran a test sample to clean the rollers and it came out very nice. I'm looking forward to see how my mash goes this weekend.

:cool:

[Otis_The_Drunk]

Cool, I'm glad to see that you are grinding your own grain now days.

[BrewDog]

Sounds great-

Where'd you get it and how much was it? (Direct?) Any bells and whistles?

[HogieWan]

that's the one I have - you'll be pleased. What is your efficiency now?

[dparsons]

I got it direct. I got it with the hopper, base, and dented adjusters.

I don't know my efficiency yet as my 1st self-milled mash is currently in the mash tun. I'll update.


Edit:
OK. My efficiency is up to 78% for this latest batch. My mash tun is sized for 10 gallon batches so my efficiency usually drops for 5 gallon batches. It was normally 70%, so this is good. I expect to be close to 85% for 10 gallon batches. Very nice.

[Carl762]

Sweet. I love my CrankandSTein. Tomorrow I keg up my first batch of self-ground grain beer.

I brew an Easter Ale Sunday.

[dparsons]

I went back to my old 5 gallon cooler to see what efficiency I'd get with it. I was brewing a Dunkel and did a double decoction mash and let the mash actually sit overnight (boosts a few points) due to my available brewing time this weekend. I got 91% efficiency. It was a bear to sparge and I didn't have room to do an infusion mashout. I had to decoct some of the liquid to get the temperature back up. Its just not worth the $1.29 I save on a pound of grain to deal with the PITB factor.

My other mash tun is a 14 gallon SS pot. It has a false bottom that sits just above the valve. I'm pretty sure the 1.5 inches of space in the bottom kills my efficiency, especially with 5 gallon batches. I can't mash below 1.2 quarts per lb of grain for a normal gravity, 5 gallon batch or the water sits below the grain. When I'm sparging and the runoff drops to 1.010 I've got a lot more wort sitting at 1.010 because of the space too.

Any ideas for improvement on the 14 gallon system? I've had two that I haven't worked through yet. I can either drop the false bottom and rework the connection to the valve, or I can put something in the bottom to take up space. I haven't worked through either idea in practical terms yet. I appreciate any new ideas or other feedback.


BTW, the Dunkel also tastes very good. Lots of Melanoidins.

[Quin]

I'd look for a cooler around 32 qts. That would give you enough grain bed depth for 5 gallon batches and enough room for step mashing.

[corkybstewart]

I have a similar setup in my keg-I have a false bottom that sits on top of the pickup tube. The tube is curved so that the end sits on the bottom of the keg right in the middle. The false bottom catches the hops and trub and the pickup tube in the middle doesn't leave but a couple of cups of liquid.
But that's for a keg, a flat bottom kettle may ned a copper manifold sith slots cut in the bottom. How much wort are you leaving behind?

[dparsons]

Originally posted by corkybstewart
How much wort are you leaving behind?

Almost 1.5 gallons sits below the screen in my mash tun. Its not an issue of picking wort up its an issue of water volume. I get too thin a mash with 5 gallon batches. When I'm sparging and reach a gravity of 1.010, I have an extra 1.5 gallons in the tun that is at 1.010. That equates to several points if that sugar had been sparged out. I had been getting 70% efficiency with 5 gallon batches and 77% efficiency with 10 gallon batches (which is what the tun is sized for) before I got the mill.

I really like the SS tun because I can do a protein rest when necessary and direct heat the mash to saccharification rest temps without adding more water.

[Mad Scientist]

I also use a false bottom in my mash tun, I wonder if that is why I cannot pass 75% in my extraction.....

[corkybstewart]

I misread the question, but I also have a false bottom on my mash tun. I usually collect enough wort that I can boil it down to the proper OG. Sometimes I end up with with almost 11 gallons of beer, sometimes 9.5. Most times it really doesn't matter to me as long as the beer is good. One problem with the conical is that it's hard to measure volume inside of it.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Boerne Brew
I also use a false bottom in my mash tun, I wonder if that is why I cannot pass 75% in my extraction.....

I use a FB on a converted keg and always get 80+%

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by corkybstewart
One problem with the conical is that it's hard to measure volume inside of it.

One benefit of a plastic conical over SS - I can see a liquid line

[corkybstewart]

I've got a line marked in my kettle but sometimes I have more or less hops & trub in the kettle and that affects final volume.

[dparsons]

Originally posted by Boerne Brew
I also use a false bottom in my mash tun, I wonder if that is why I cannot pass 75% in my extraction.....

Originally posted by HogieWan
I use a FB on a converted keg and always get 80+%

Its my theory that the amount of fluid below the false bottom is a big player. My 5 gallon cooler has a false bottom too, but the volume of liquid under it is small.

I'm brewing again this next weekend :D so maybe I'll experiment.

[HogieWan]

maybe you can find a different FB with a smaller space

[Mad Scientist]

Maybe....my FB sits pretty high, and has maybe a gallon or more under it.

[HogieWan]

I'm thinking of mine and it cant have more than a half gallon under it.

[Mad Scientist]

My FB is a polarware FB that was modified to fit in a 10 gallon cooler.

[dparsons]

Originally posted by Boerne Brew
My FB is a polarware FB that was modified to fit in a 10 gallon cooler.

Mine is a Polarware FB that fits a Polarware tun. Note, the quality is poor. I would not duplicate this purchase and wouldn't recommend it.

[takhsh]

A question about the CrankandStein crushers.
Do you use a cracnk to hand drive it, or do you attach a drill, or a motor?
If you use the hand cranck how long does it take to crash it?

[Mad Scientist]

While I have a Barely Crysher, they crush at similar rates, and it takes me 10 to 15 minutes to crush 10 or so lbs of malt by hand crankning. The drill takes about half the time, but I rarely use it b/c I always forget to charge the drill.

[MrNate]

Originally posted by dparsons
Its my theory that the amount of fluid below the false bottom is a big player. My 5 gallon cooler has a false bottom too, but the volume of liquid under it is small.

I'm brewing again this next weekend :D so maybe I'll experiment.

Can someone elborate on this theory? Why does the space below the FB make a difference? Isn't it all just going into solution?

[dparsons]

Originally posted by MrNate
Can someone elborate on this theory? Why does the space below the FB make a difference? Isn't it all just going into solution?

Yes, the sugar goes into solution. When you stop sparging you have all the wort in the mash tun at the concentration you stop at (more or less). This is likely at a gravity of 1.010. If you have a quart under your false bottom then you have less sugar in the tun than if you have 2 quarts or 6 quarts. That difference in sugar quantity is what didn't go into the collected wort. Going from 1 quart to 6 quarts at a gravity of 1.010 for a 5 gallon batch makes a difference of 0.025 points in the resulting OG. For a beer with an OG of 1.050 this amounts to a 5% efficiency drop.

For a homebrewer this means you use an extra 1/2 lb of grain for a 5 gallon batch. Cost per batch is $0.40 to $0.75 depending on your grain source. It really isn't worth messing with unless you just want to.

[barleyburps]

I don't understand any of you. . . you want to calculate out everything. . I'm happy to know that I get beer at the best for~38cents/bottle - 80cents/bottle depending on what I'm doing at the time. . . ya'all are forgeting charlies advice. . . rdwhah. . .

[MrNate]

Originally posted by dparsons
If you have a quart under your false bottom then you have less sugar in the tun than if you have 2 quarts or 6 quarts.


This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. Why would you have less sugar in the tun if you had an extra gallon of water? Wouldn't it be the same amount of sugar, only more dilute?

BarleyBurps, the only reason this is of any interest to me right now is because I am designing a new mash tun. I don't plan on calculating anything, I just want to make sure it's based on sound theory. I don't even calculate cost per bottle anymore.

[dparsons]

Originally posted by MrNate
This is the part that doesn't make sense to me. Why would you have less sugar in the tun if you had an extra gallon of water? Wouldn't it be the same amount of sugar, only more dilute?


If you stop sparging at a Gravity of 1.010, that is what the wort in the bottom of the tun is at. More liquid at the same gravity equates to more sugar.

[dparsons]

OK. So I made an attempt at filling up the bottom of my mash tun. I had a bunch of marbles so I used them. I cut the volume below the screen in half to 3 quarts. I did two 10 gallon batches and got an 84% efficiency both times. My last efficiencieswere 77% and 78%, but that was before the grain mill. I'll have to do a 10 gallon batch or two without the marbles to draw a conclusion on the volume reduction. The only thing I'm sure of right now is that it was a PITB to get the grain cleaned out of the marbles. Not the way to go.

[paulcgi]

if your coupling is threaded on the inside, could you not just put a siphon tube from it going in to middle of tank and then down to the bottom?

on my mash tun the siphon tube sits like 3/8" above the bottom and will siphon the thing down to damn near empty. It's hard to tell how much is left when the grain is in it, but if I just put some water in to test it will siphon down to like maybe a 1/2 pint left over

[dparsons]

Originally posted by paulcgi
if your coupling is threaded on the inside, could you not just put a siphon tube from it going in to middle of tank and then down to the bottom?

on my mash tun the siphon tube sits like 3/8" above the bottom and will siphon the thing down to damn near empty. It's hard to tell how much is left when the grain is in it, but if I just put some water in to test it will siphon down to like maybe a 1/2 pint left over

Thanks. That is pretty much what I'm thinking now. I can drop my current false bottom and attach a pickup tube in the center to pull the liquid from underneath and then out the valve.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by HogieWan
One benefit of a plastic conical over SS - I can see a liquid line

yep, I went so far as to measure out and mark a line for each gallon on my minibrew conical.

p.s. hogie, not having that sealing ring has not seemed to matter for three batches so far.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by HarkJohnny
yep, I went so far as to measure out and mark a line for each gallon on my minibrew conical.

p.s. hogie, not having that sealing ring has not seemed to matter for three batches so far.

The gasket has been a huge PITA for me. I'm getting a pump of some kind to move the beer instead of the suction method I've been using. I marked gallons and half-gallons on mine.