equipment questions

[iamnick]

Well I have made two extract batches, and have three more planned for the upcoming weekends. My first beer is great...had an under-carbonated one from second batch (I'm impatient) and liked that as well. Next up is a robust porter followed by a honey wheat and finally, a session beer recipe wortchillergoal posted in a thread I started awhile back (thanks again, btw). While I am happy with the two beers I have made thus far....I really want to move on to AG. I'm going to snag a turkey fryer after the semester is over and get myself a cooler to convert to mash/lauter tun as well. My goal is to become comfortable brewing AG as quickly as I can before school starts back up. I have a few questions, though, about equipment.

-what size cooler should I get? I ask this because I'm curious to whether people will suggest starting with 5 gal batches instead of 10 gallon. I'd like to do 10 gallon (beer doesn't last too long around here)...so I figured I'd get a cooler big enough to handle a mash that big. I don't want to have to make another mash/lauter tun in 2 months or something. Is it a bad idea to make my first AG batch 10 gallon?

-should I get a brewpot to boil the wort for a 10 gallon batch all at once? or split it up? I'm leaning towards buying one 7.5 gallon brewpot and doing two separate boils just because it'd lessen the expense. I know it'd probably take longer and be a PITA but, honestly, most weekends at school the only other thing I'd be doing on a Saturday is just messing around anyways, so it wouldn't be a big deal.

-this isn't really related to equipment...but do you guys ever have brew parties or something like that? I think that it'd be real fun to be out in the backyard of my house at school brewing/drinking homebrews/grilling etc.

I can't wait for it to warm up.

I know I have more questions but the Saranacs have gotten in the way of my memory.

-Nick

[mookow]

Originally posted by iamnick
-what size cooler should I get? I ask this because I'm curious to whether people will suggest starting with 5 gal batches instead of 10 gallon. I'd like to do 10 gallon (beer doesn't last too long around here)...so I figured I'd get a cooler big enough to handle a mash that big. I don't want to have to make another mash/lauter tun in 2 months or something. Is it a bad idea to make my first AG batch 10 gallon?

I dont see a problem with starting off with 10 gallon batches. I'd recommend at least a 12 gallon cooler, but then again I tend to make big beers. If you are going to stick to around 1.050 or 1.060, a 10 gallon cooler would work just fine.

-should I get a brewpot to boil the wort for a 10 gallon batch all at once? or split it up? I'm leaning towards buying one 7.5 gallon brewpot and doing two separate boils just because it'd lessen the expense. I know it'd probably take longer and be a PITA but, honestly, most weekends at school the only other thing I'd be doing on a Saturday is just messing around anyways, so it wouldn't be a big deal.
Splitting the boil seems to me to be an excessive PITA. Plus you have to remember that the first runnings from an AG setup come out well above your target OG, and the last runnings are well below your target OG. So splitting them up would be somewhat problematic.

-this isn't really related to equipment...but do you guys ever have brew parties or something like that? I think that it'd be real fun to be out in the backyard of my house at school brewing/drinking homebrews/grilling etc.

I can't wait for it to warm up.

I know I have more questions but the Saranacs have gotten in the way of my memory.

-Nick
I always have a brew helper come over. I tempt them with a couple high quality brews (including my homebrew) and in return I get seven or eight hours of "free" labor from them. Having an extra pair of hands on brew day is a huge help, and well worth splitting a couple beers.

[iamnick]

ahh yes I hadn't thought of what a pain it would be in regards to first and second runnings. I'll have to see what I can do to get my hands on a real big pot.

I'm glad you don't think it would be too bad jumping right in with a 10 gallon batch. It makes the most sense to be because I have the attitude that I might as well make as much beer as I can at once. It's not like it will go to waste...

-Nick

[danno]

might as well jump to 10 gallons, since it's only going to take marginally longer than 5 gallons and the same amount of work...

[vw addict]

On the 10 gallon topic, if you're going to spend the time to brew all-grain you may as well get the most you can. Double the beer for the same amount of work. I just started AG as well, and both my brewdays have been about 8 hours when you add in getting everything ready, brewing, and cleanup. I can probably get them down to 6, but that's still a long day. On the topic of mash tun/kettle. I was thinking of the plastic cooler route, then I stumbled upon a used Brew Magic system. The converted kegs are definately the way to go. If you can find two kegs and make one into a mash/lauter and one into your kettle you will be a very happy man. Plus then you solve the problem of 10 gallon batches, and the keg will be cheaper than finding a decent 10+ gallon brewpot IMO.

[iamnick]

Maybe it will soon get old...but 8 hours to me seems like 8 hours of fun, especially if it is with the right people. Granted, it wont be possible all the time, but I really am not worried about it taking too long. Thanks for the advice, I will look into BM.

Thought of another question....what do you guys do about brewing 10 gallon batches in the winter? I don't have a garage...

[HogieWan]

I do a full brew session, from setup to clean-up, in 5-6 hours. I also use converted kegs - 15.5 gallon SS pots.

I brew outside in the winter with no problem, but I'm very far south of Buffalo. If you go with kegs for the mash tun, make sure you insulate them.

[vw addict]

Originally posted by iamnick
Maybe it will soon get old...but 8 hours to me seems like 8 hours of fun, especially if it is with the right people.
hey, I never said it wasn't fun. And the "helpers" like to talk and drink beer and stir, but they aren't much help with cleanup.;)

[iamnick]

Originally posted by vw addict
hey, I never said it wasn't fun. And the "helpers" like to talk and drink beer and stir, but they aren't much help with cleanup.;)

haha yeah I have already experienced the "disappearing helper come clean-up time" phenomenon with my extract batches. they never want to help sanitize, either lol...

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by iamnick
haha yeah I have already experienced the "disappearing helper come clean-up time" phenomenon with my extract batches. they never want to help sanitize, either lol...

I like having people around just to talk to while I'm brewing. The only time I ever really want help is if I have to lift something heavy.

[iamnick]

yeah def. I could do it all by myself I think, but its a lot more fun having a buddy or two around to pass the time and have a few beers with.

-Nick

[corkybstewart]

I've been teaching a guy from work how to brew, and I got to admit, I really prefer the solitude of brewing alone. I don't drink when I'm brewing and helpers always seem to want to have a few brews, and after a week of office work, I really just want some peace and quiet, or at least the roar of propane burners.

[paulcgi]

ahhhh.. you got that right. I brewed my last batch at night on a Thursday. from 9pm until about 2am.
in the barn, alone, with 2 of those badboys roaring away.. and the hop aroma mixed in... beautiful.

anyway.. back to topic, I'd say to keep your eyes open for used 1/2 bbl kegs. they fit the bill for everything. HLT, mash/lauter tun and boil kettle. a keg and some quality time with a sawzall (and 5 or 6 blades) and you have yourself a keggle

[iamnick]

The only time I ever seem to have to brew is friday/saturday early evening. I figure that I'll end up having a few beers after I'm done anyways, so I might as well have a couple while brewing and offer some to a roommate to have some company.

I can understand the appeal of solitude, though. To me there isn't much better than a solo 9 holes of golf in the early morning.

-Nick

[Saint-Thomas]

I hear ya, Corky! I brewed alone yesterday; my first all grain. It was 6.5 hours of peace. I even multitasked and was able to bottle two five gal batches of beer I made last brew session. That time I had "helpers" who insisted on trying every kind of beer I had on hand, including my expensive imported Belgians and Dogfish Head ales ( the most intoxicated I've been in years.) That session lasted 9 hours, cost me about $40-50, and they didn't stick around to help clean up. Note that it was 2.5 hours longer for an extract brew than it was for my first AG which included a couple of newbie mistakes and the time I spent fabricating a hopper for my new Crankandstein.

Since then, I have hurt the feelings of one "helper" because I couldn't adjust my work schedule to accomodate him! Brewing alone is best. I would have my friends over only if I had plenty of time to kill.

[iamnick]

Originally posted by paulcgi

anyway.. back to topic, I'd say to keep your eyes open for used 1/2 bbl kegs. they fit the bill for everything. HLT, mash/lauter tun and boil kettle. a keg and some quality time with a sawzall (and 5 or 6 blades) and you have yourself a keggle



so is this what most people are using rather than coolers for mash/lauter tuns? I see the versatility appeal to a keg, but I'm just curious if coolers are not considered as good as converted kegs in making a good beer.

-Nick

[paulcgi]

I'm sure some would argue for coolers and against kegs. the cooler is well insulated and will hold your mash temps without a problem.
for me, I direct fire my mash tun so it doesn't matter.
http://www.geocities.com/paulsgi/images/new_stand.jpg

I also have a RIMS brewery now, so that's a whole other topic ;-)

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by iamnick
so is this what most people are using rather than coolers for mash/lauter tuns? I see the versatility appeal to a keg, but I'm just curious if coolers are not considered as good as converted kegs in making a good beer.

-Nick

It depends on what you like. A cooler will hold the temp better, but if you do lose a couple degrees or you miss your target, you can't put fire to the cooler, but with a keg you can

[iamnick]

Originally posted by HogieWan
It depends on what you like. A cooler will hold the temp better, but if you do lose a couple degrees or you miss your target, you can't put fire to the cooler, but with a keg you can

couldn't I heat it up via the addition of hot water, though? I don't know if that would be okay to do or not...but it seems like it would work.

-Nick

[paulcgi]

yep.. works just fine. The beer recipe software available (beersmith & promash at least) will also calculate how much water you have to add to attain a desired temp increase.
so worst case scenario I guess would be that you have to add a quart or two of just off the boil water to get the temp you want.

beersmith tells me, for example, that to go from 145F to 152F with 12lbs grain and 12qts water, you need to add 2 qts of 204F water. easy enough

I guess this could be the only drawback IF you didn't choose a cooler big enough to handle the volume. otherwise lots of people use coolers and it works just fine

[iamnick]

Originally posted by paulcgi
yep.. works just fine. The beer recipe software available (beersmith & promash at least) will also calculate how much water you have to add to attain a desired temp increase.
so worst case scenario I guess would be that you have to add a quart or two of just off the boil water to get the temp you want.

beersmith tells me, for example, that to go from 145F to 152F with 12lbs grain and 12qts water, you need to add 2 qts of 204F water. easy enough

I guess this could be the only drawback IF you didn't choose a cooler big enough to handle the volume. otherwise lots of people use coolers and it works just fine

Thanks for this very, very, useful info. I didn't realize beersmith did this. I am leaning towards the cooler set-up because for my first batch I'd like to follow Palmer's step-by-step as close as possible, and he uses one.

-Nick

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by iamnick
couldn't I heat it up via the addition of hot water, though? I don't know if that would be okay to do or not...but it seems like it would work.

-Nick

paul (kinda) beat me to it, but adding hot water not only needs more room, but it affects your water:grain ratio.

[iamnick]

Originally posted by HogieWan
paul (kinda) beat me to it, but adding hot water not only needs more room, but it affects your water:grain ratio.

I guess I'll just have to be close to perfect every time lol.

[BrewDog]

Originally posted by HogieWan
paul (kinda) beat me to it, but adding hot water not only needs more room, but it affects your water:grain ratio.

Which becomes very important if you want to do a multi step mash. Each step requires more water, and you eventually may either run out of room without hitting your target temp, or you may extract tannins if your mash water/grain ratio gets too big.

[iamnick]

Thanks for the info...I am getting the feeling that people don't find a cooler to be the best option. I still am thinking, though, that a cooler will be easy/cheap enough to convert that I will still start with it. I can always switch farther down the road if I decide to.

-Nick

[BrewDog]

A cooler works great. Just know its limitations.

The other remedy for running out of space that has been mentioned here before is to draw off some of the mash and do a decoctions.

Decoctions are not difficult (though they can be time consuming). Just pull out some of the grains (a thick glop like oatmeal), bring it up to 150 or so for 10 ro 15 mins to convert it. Then bring that up to a boil. Return it to the main mash to get your temp up to target.

HTH-

[MrNate]

I use a large rectangular cooler I snagged from the camping gear. It works fine. But understand that I am a lazy, sloppy brewer. If I don't hit my temps by the time the cooler is at capacity, oh well.

It always ferments and it's usually drinkable, so until I get my 1/2 bbl system planned out and built it's just fine by me.

5 gallons, in my opinion, is not nearly enough beer for any self-respecting alcoholic. At least not one with friends. If you plan on sharing and don't really feel like brewing every single month, go bigger.

[iamnick]

You both have reassured me about the cooler. Thanks.

I have also found that 5 gallons just isn't enough beer. I have to take into account three housemates and the sixer I save for my old man from each batch....

I am really looking forward to AG.

-Nick

[dparsons]

Originally posted by iamnick
I guess I'll just have to be close to perfect every time lol.

It isn't hard to be within a degree or two on hitting a mash temperature. Coolers don't loose much heat either.

The issue is if you want to do a multi-step mash. Say you've decided to do an oatmeal stout with unmalted oats so a protein rest at 122 *F is beneficial. If you do the extra rest at a low water to grain ratio of .9 qt/lb, you still will be at a high ratio (affects pH) when you add enough boiling water to hit your mash temp of 152 *F. After that you'll do best to add more water for the mashout at 168 *F. You need to have a big enough cooler or you can't add the extra water. Alternatives are to skip the protein rest and/or mashout, do a decoction (with or without grain), or get a stainless tun that you can heat.

If you go the cooler route, 12 gallons is the minimim size for 10 gallon batches as mookow indicated. 15 gallons is better. Yes you can get away with less, but you'll kick yourself when you can't brew certain recipes well. I initially got a 5 gallon cooler for 5 gallon batches. It took me 1 batch to realize it wasn't big enought to do anything but a normal gravity beer with a single infusion mash. My 5 gallon coolers are now hot liquor tanks.

[takhsh]

I don't drink when I'm brewing and helpers always seem to want to have a few brews

Wrong!
Well, I do not drink during brewing either, but I do drink the wort, and eat some barely. My only way of finding out if everyhting is going well.
Yes, I do use a hydrometer, but my tongue tells me more things that I want to know about my process, and how htings are going this time around.

[corkybstewart]

What I meant is that I do not consume alcohol until the wort is in the fermenter and the yeast is pitched. Then it's time to get after it. Cleaning up all that mess stone cold sober is not an option.
I definitely chew grain , grain mixes, taste the wort, etc.
For me its a safety issue. I've got 170F or boiling water above my head, 12 gallons of boiling syrup, hoses, buckets, assorted brewing tools, its just not a good idea to start drinking.

[barleyburps]

. . . . .I'm lucky to make it to lautering without pouring a beer. . .

[dparsons]

Originally posted by barleyburps
. . . . .I'm lucky to make it to lautering without pouring a beer. . .

Perhaps:
I'm lucky enough to make it to lautering with a beer

[vw addict]

Originally posted by dparsons
Perhaps:
I'm lucky enough to make it to lautering with a beer
LOL. I make it to watching the water in the HLT heat up to mash temp.