Typical Beer Advocate

[ratman03]

Typical BA ignorance. The beer in question is an interesting, although certainly unusual, take on a winter brew. They make it with a Belgian yeast.

What gets me is the tone of these reviews -- opinionated, haughty, and dismissive. It's clear that these people are reviewing something they don't understand, because although different, this is not a bad beer by any measure. BA denizens feel at liberty to pan a beer and a brewer simply because a beer is not what they expected or would prefer.

http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/141/26667/?sort=low&start=0

[dparsons]

They are a bunch of amateurs (like me) and the site can only be taken that way. If its a big hoppy IPA it will score well irregardless of quality. The further away from an IPA, the lower the score. In general, of course. I haven't found the site very useful in directing me to good beer.

One of the comments on flavor "Malt and hop taste to it" is pretty telling as 99% of the beers in the world have malt and hop tastes. Sorry, but I gotta poke fun: "Gee, it tastes like beer."

[markaberrant]

I didn't check in regads to this specific review, but if I see an out of place review on BA, I will sometimes look at the rest of that person's reviews, which gives a good indication of where the guy is coming from (ie; only likes dark belgians, thinks Guinness is the PINNACLE of beer, etc).

A single review is pretty useless, I enjoy reading a sample of them, which oftens give you a ballpark idea of what the beer is like. I also like to read reviews of specific members whose opinions I respect.

Personally, I love BA reviews, everyone's opinion is welcome. Much better than most of the official reviews/articles that come from so-called "experts."

I have done very well using the reviews and BeerFly to guide me to good beer. When I travel, I look up what's available locally and have made some very good selections... much better than when I've gone somewhere "blind."

[newportstorm]

While I enjoyed Smutty Winter, and agree that many reviews (at every beer site) lack depth, who am I to tell people what to like or not? With many style guidelines tossed out the window (or simply stretched), a "review" basically comes down to whether you enjoyed the beer or not. I've discussed this very beer with friends. Some, like me, think it's solid interpretation of a Belgian Dubbel. Others claimed is was a flat, watery, bubble gum infused mess.

Yet, reading a few of those reviews, it makes you wonder how different can one beer be? One claims no hop character. Another claims it's hoppy. Bah. I gave up formal "reviewing" for the most part over a year ago and am much happier to just drink and chat about beer.

Cheers!

[corkybstewart]

I'm active on BA but mostly just the homebrew forums. I don't review beer, I see no reason why my opinion of a beer is the least bit useful to anybody else on earth, and I very rarely read anybody else's reviews. I do like the beerfly section when I travel. But I agree with the idea that if it isn't a quadruple DIPA BA'ers in general give it a thumbs down. I'm making a wild ass guess but I bet the average age of a BA is probably around 25, an age where popular trends(fads) are more important than to an old fart like myself, and I think the overhopped beer is a fad that will soon pass.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by corkybstewart
I'm active on BA but mostly just the homebrew forums. I don't review beer, I see no reason why my opinion of a beer is the least bit useful to anybody else on earth, and I very rarely read anybody else's reviews. I do like the beerfly section when I travel. But I agree with the idea that if it isn't a quadruple DIPA BA'ers in general give it a thumbs down. I'm making a wild ass guess but I bet the average age of a BA is probably around 25, an age where popular trends(fads) are more important than to an old fart like myself, and I think the overhopped beer is a fad that will soon pass.

I'll agree that many over the top beers garner high marks on BA. Many (half?) of the top 100 on the site probably clock in above 8-9% abv. And I also agree that the usership there is getting younger and younger, though I'm not sure if BA requires a birthdate for registration and tracks stats like that. And that doesn't mean that youth = ignorance. I've a few friends younger than me that are quite well travelled and know a bit about beer.

Some of the inane threads over the past 6 mos+ lead me to believe that a younger set is being attracted to BA. That, or the average IQ of the users is decreasing along with age. Not necessarily a bad thing for craft beer (more exposure, new customers, etc.) - but not helpful in creating an engaging forum, review section, etc.

It's a balancing act and depending on what side of the scale you're on, you either love it or hate it.

[D0nc0smic]

OK, part of why those reviews all seem so awful is because they are ordered from worst to best, so anytime you have well over 100 people reviewing a beer your going to have 5-10 that just don't have any appreciation for that particular style.

[markaberrant]

I too think it is stupid that only high abv/ibu beers get the highest ratings. However, if you search by style you can easily figure out which are the better choices.

[fatboy570]

Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, try a beer for yourself and form your own opinion. I've tried some beers on recommendation from others, some were good, some were terrible. If you like it, that's all that counts

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by newportstorm
I gave up formal "reviewing" for the most part over a year ago and am much happier to just drink and chat about beer.

Cheers!

I enjoy some reviews from a few beer drinkers whom I respect and know they have knowledge of the topic. I rarely read reviews on BA. I use it for locating places when I travel and sometime for stats on a certain beer. But I really love just talking about beer in general. I realized a long time ago that tastes are subjective. So drink what you like and enjoy.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I enjoy some reviews from a few beer drinkers whom I respect and know they have knowledge of the topic. I rarely read reviews on BA. I use it for locating places when I travel and sometime for stats on a certain beer. But I really love just talking about beer in general. I realized a long time ago that tastes are subjective. So drink what you like and enjoy.

I agree.

My aim was to point out what seems to be the typical BA reviewer -- ignorant, yet authoritative.

BA has been hanging their hat on the Big Beer thing for a while now -- the owners apparently think it's some kind of marketing plan -- so as others have said, you really have to take a lot of the reviews with a chunk of salt. Or don't take them at all, as I do. I just think it's lame to pan a brewery because they didn't brew the type of beer that you wanted them to brew.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by fatboy570
Doesn't matter what anyone else thinks, try a beer for yourself and form your own opinion. I've tried some beers on recommendation from others, some were good, some were terrible. If you like it, that's all that counts

You sir are a crazy man. Unless a beer has been approved by the Grand Council you have no right to enjoy it.

[Stonch]

There's little doubt that BeerAdvocate is a site biased heavily toward "big", usually American, beers. You're right about the ignorant + authoritative bit - I find it amusing that good beers from good brewers get cussed down by people who meanwhile think Guinness is a flavoursome beer from a microbrewery.

I also find the tone set by the site owners tiresome at times, although as a resource it's undeniably useful for us all.

Cheers
__________________
Visit my beer blog - http://stonch.blogspot.com

[wortchillergoal]

All I know is that I have the Smuttynose Winter Ale in a glass sitting here for tasting as I type, post, and/or think if that is possible for a goalie.

My first reaction, goalies are good at that, is that I like this beer. I had my lovely Hollywood bride taste it as well. She, a barelywine drinker for those of you who don't know/remember, thought it was quite tasty as well.

I find beer reviews intersting reads no matter where I might find them. I would not base my not tasting a beer from them unless everything I read pointed to a tasteless product. It helps if you know the reviewers as well.

All in all, let BA have thier opinion. I have mine and my glass full of this wonderful beer that I will guard like I cover the puck. I have it and no one else can.

[jalstromer]

Beeradvocate is first and foremost a voice for the consumer ... the craft beer industry needs a kick in the pants everyday regardless if the opinion is ignorant or if the reviews are "opinionated, haughty, and dismissive".

If we all walked around and held hands singing "We are the world" thinking every craft beer is great then we'd end up with a lot of shitty beer. If a beer is bad or horrible the consumer has every right to voice their opinion.

Is it ignorance or is it that you just can't understand why they don't agree with you?

FWIW, I was not impressed at all with the Smutty Winter ...

Jason
BeerAdvocate

[jalstromer]

Originally posted by ratman03
BA has been hanging their hat on the Big Beer thing for a while now -- the owners apparently think it's some kind of marketing plan -- so as others have said, you really have to take a lot of the reviews with a chunk of salt. Or don't take them at all, as I do. I just think it's lame to pan a brewery because they didn't brew the type of beer that you wanted them to brew.

So if a great actor comes out with a mediocre movie we are supposed to like it because they are a great actor?

There is no grand plan here brother ... just a bunch of ignorant consumers that don't know what they are talking about yet are willing to spend their hard earned money to review beer that they can pan.

Sounds like you are looking at this the wrong way ...

Opinion: a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

And some many say this thread is ignorant. ;-)

[ratman03]

Originally posted by jalstromer
So if a great actor comes out with a mediocre movie we are supposed to like it because they are a great actor?

There is no grand plan here brother ... just a bunch of ignorant consumers that don't know what they are talking about yet are willing to spend their hard earned money to review beer that they can pan.

Sounds like you are looking at this the wrong way ...

Opinion: a personal view, attitude, or appraisal.

And some many say this thread is ignorant. ;-)


Some would say (to paraphrase you) that you sound self-important when you state that the craft beer industry needs a "kick in the pants everyday" (I'm sure brewers everywhere are thankful to have you taking care of this for them :rolleyes: ) You honestly think a bunch of poseurs on your site writing half-assed reviews has any effect on the "beer industry"??? Puuuleeeze.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by jalstromer
Beeradvocate is first and foremost a voice for the consumer ... the craft beer industry needs a kick in the pants everyday regardless if the opinion is ignorant or if the reviews are "opinionated, haughty, and dismissive".

If we all walked around and held hands singing "We are the world" thinking every craft beer is great then we'd end up with a lot of shitty beer. If a beer is bad or horrible the consumer has every right to voice their opinion.

Is it ignorance or is it that you just can't understand why they don't agree with you?

FWIW, I was not impressed at all with the Smutty Winter ...

Jason
BeerAdvocate

Of course the consumer has "every right to voice their opinion". And I have every right to consider those opinions ignorant and uninformed. I think it is irresponsible to encourage people to shoot from the hip and blast perfectly good products simply because the brewer didn't brew a beer the way they wanted. A beer site should foster connoisseurship, education, and appreciation -- not hops and alcohol fueled zealotry.

It appears that you have taken umbrage at my characterizations of BeerAdvocate, but my opinons are based on what I have observed. Surely you cannot deny that your site, and by extension your membership, is biased towards "extreme" beers; notwithstanding the fact that your site is a sponsor for an extreme beer festival every year?

And to answer your question: I perfectly understand why a lot of your *reviewers* (loose use of term) don't agree with me: It's because they haven't the foggiest idea what they're talking about!!!! :p

[jalstromer]

Originally posted by ratman03
Some would say (to paraphrase you) that you sound self-important when you state that the craft beer industry needs a "kick in the pants everyday" (I'm sure brewers everywhere are thankful to have you taking care of this for them :rolleyes: ) You honestly think a bunch of posers on your site writing half-assed reviews has any effect on the "beer industry"??? Puuuleeeze.

Hehe ... I love it when someones lets their true colors shine. BTW yer baiting style is not so good ...

[jalstromer]

Originally posted by ratman03
And to answer your question: I perfectly understand why a lot of your *reviewers* (loose use of term) don't agree with me: It's because they haven't the foggiest idea what they're talking about!!!! :p

YEAH! Yet another beer geek that thinks they know it all ... this is exactly what the craft beer industry hates. Yet again your true colors show again by berating other people.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by jalstromer
Hehe ... I love it when someones lets their true colors shine. BTW yer baiting style is not so good ...

And I love it when people back out of a discussion under the pretext of taking the high road. You chose to get involved in this discussion.

[jalstromer]

Originally posted by ratman03
And I love it when people back out of a discussion under the pretext of taking the high road. You chose to get involved in this discussion.

Its not a discussion or even a debate when you berate people ... its simply ridiculous. Just goes to show what kind of person you are. Don't worry I don't hold any grudges. ;-)

[ratman03]

Originally posted by jalstromer
Its not a discussion or even a debate when you berate people ... its simply ridiculous. Just goes to show what kind of person you are. Don't worry I don't hold any grudges. ;-)

Anyone who reads the thread will see that I did not berate you or anyone.

I consider many of the reviewers on your site uninformed. That is simply my opinion based on what is on your site.

You are now attempting to distort this thread by discrediting me, and by mis-characterizing what I have said. I stand by what I have said, regardless of the obvious fact that it offends you. As I said before, YOU chose to jump on here and offer a response. And I don't hold any grudges either, so let me be the one to suggest that we stand down. ;)

[jalstromer]

Originally posted by ratman03
Anyone who reads the thread will see that I did not berate you or anyone.

I consider many of the reviewers on your site uninformed. That is simply my opinion based on what is on your site.

You are now attempting to distort this thread by discrediting me, and by mis-characterizing what I have said. I stand by what I have said, regardless of the obvious fact that it offends you. As I said before, YOU chose to jump on here and offer a response. And I don't hold any grudges either, so let me be the one to suggest that we stand down. ;)

Whatever ... your sweeping generalizations that Beeradvocate users don't know what they are talking about is ridiculous. You obviously hold a grudge towards the site ... I saw some of the stuff you edited out of your posts. No need to fess up ... but lines like this:

"You honestly think a bunch of poseurs on your site writing half-assed reviews has any effect on the "beer industry"???"

Berating IMO ... I'm not offended either, just defending our users. Now what If I posted on Beeradvocate that all of those Real Beer guys have no idea what they are talking about ... blah blah blah. Not good right?

There are no beer experts ... just beer drinkers with opinions.

[Stonch]

Jason I don't think anyone is saying that everyone should pretend all beers from "craft" brewers are beyonf reproach and must be praised. It's not that. I think it's more the tone of some of the reviews that irks some people.

Cheers
__________________
Visit my beer blog - http://stonch.blogspot.com

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by ratman03
Some would say (to paraphrase you) that you sound self-important when you state that the craft beer industry needs a "kick in the pants everyday" (I'm sure brewers everywhere are thankful to have you taking care of this for them :rolleyes: ) You honestly think a bunch of poseurs on your site writing half-assed reviews has any effect on the "beer industry"??? Puuuleeeze.

I think that BeerAdvocate (website and now the magazine) has a HUGE effect on the industry. I am very thankful for the work jason and his brother do.

I agree with the fact that all the reviewers are opinionated and ignorant (to some extent), but if they weren't opinionated, they wouldn't write reviews, and if they were not ignorant, they'd be getting paid to write reviews and not posting on a website. I like the idea of unsolicited consumer reviews for any product.

I really prefer the forums here at RB to BA (smaller group, more friendly, and more homebrewing emphasis), so I spend more time here than there, but I still use BA especially for getting some quick info about a brew.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by jalstromer
There are no beer experts ... just beer drinkers with opinions.

Whatever happened to this motto/slogan on BA?
Used to be prominent.
Now?
Just wondering.....

[fretlessman71]

I do find it interesting that the only one who is ever on this site with a confrontational attitude seems to only show up for that expressed purpose. And that's all I'm going to say on that.

[chazwicke]

BA, Realbeer, and Ratebeer all have their places in the beer community at large. There is room for us all. I use all three sites for different purposes. I also subscribe to BA magazine, which I think is a nice addition to the beer print media. I also subscribe to AAB, Mid-Atlantic Brewing News, and formerly Malt Advocate. I get Breweriana mags. from 3 different clubs and read Ale Street frequently too. The other Brewing News papers and Celebrator are occasional reads as well. My point is the community is large enough to sustain all viewpoints. I like some extreme beers and have once been to Boston to attend one of the Extreme Beer Festivals. It was great and I met up with several Realbeerians there. So we all overlap. I prefer more session-oriented beers but I don't limit myself to them. They are just my usual preferred choice. All of the sites and publications have something of merit to offer. I have my preferences. Anytime you read a beer review it has to be taken as highly subjective. That is why there are a few reviewers whom I think I know their general tastes and their depth of knowledge or I am aware that they have similar tastes to mine and I enjoy reading those reviews. But it is always best to form your own opinion based on your own observations and tastings. It is OK to like or dislike certain beer types or styles. It is also OK to like or dislike sites or published media. We’ll all never agree what is best as it is up to personal tastes and is all subjective.
Now lets talk about Music – best songs and bands……
:D

[fretlessman71]

Okay - you ever heard of a band called Boston? :D

[chazwicke]

:mad:



(See what I mean?)

[MeridianFC]

I think this thread got off on the wrong foot.

FWIW (not much I know) I think BA is a great resource for infomation about beers. Almost anytime I want to get some info (location, company name, products avaiable) I'll point my browser over in that direction.

As far as the reviews, I think BA is a victim of its own success. I find that in many cases there are just too many reviews/reviewers so it's hard to sift through all the data in timely fashion. I do believe that, in general, there is a "big beer bias" there (to be honest I think there's a bit of one here and just about everywhere in the craft brewing world but that's a debate for another thread.....Lew Bryson thead...cough..cough..cough). My only other problem with the BA reviews is they get a bit boring after a while, but then again I find a lot of beer reviewing boring ("hint of lace on the glass, check, nose of ripe fruit grapes and elderberry, check, color 35mpg check, bitterness 125mph, blah blah blah).

I think this whole pissing match between communities that care about craft brewing to be counterproductive.

K.

[stronk]

Want to hang a lock on this thread, anyone? There's not really anything left to say. In any case, one should try not to argue from inside the box. Let's all keep this in mind for future reference.

PS: Huh! Ageist board this is. I'm barely 21, but I bet I sound like an old man sometimes.

[DecoJuicer]

Is it too late for me to fly off the handle with a knee jerk reaction??

Personally, I don't care what other people think. If a beer intrigues me, I will buy it. If I don't like it, I won't buy it again. If I do like it, I will horde my precious and shame on anybody that attempts to take it.

In fact, I'm drinking a beer right now that I probably wouldn't have drank a year ago, but I tried it and it is now my favorite. (By the way, thanks Fret for your recommendation of the Edmond Fitz. Porter)

I don't go to BA because, to be quite honest, I don't have the energy to devote to yet another web site. So I come here and I read, and if I disagree with somebody, then who cares?? My drinking habits are not based on somebody else's opinions.

Can't we all just get along??

(By the way, the above doesn't apply to Richard...I still hold a grudge, and I will have my revenge!!...Just kidding Richard)

[Mill Rat]

I apply my 75% rule to beer sites as well as other resources, charities, etc. If IMHO, they manage to get 75% right, I'll stick with them. I get kinda lonely if I set that mark too much higher. I hang out at both RB and BA because I think they both hit that mark. I have not yet added ratebeer, not so much due to any deficiency on their part as I really don't want to lose another d$%n hour out of my day. Once I saw Jason and ratman face off, I knew this was gonna get, well, interesting.:eek: