Lew's New Blog

[steveh]

Once again proving, Lew definitely gets it. (http://lewbryson.blogspot.com/2007/01/session-beer-project-1st-entry.html)

S.

[chazwicke]

Thankfully so. Many of us here on Realbeer have raised this flag before. I think there are legions who just want a well made quaffable session beer. We like some of the bigger or imperial brews but most of the time just want something that is well crafted, drinkable and allows us to see the subtleties of good beer too. The softer side of beer. A beer we can enjoy several of over the coarse of an evening. There have been plenty of threads discussing the merits of good session brews and a quest for good milds. Here are some old ones that I found just doing a cursory search.

http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/newreply.php?action=newreply&threadid=12024


http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?threadid=13100&highlight=%2Amild%2A




So thank you Lew for bringing the subject to light.

[MeridianFC]

Amen, amen, amen.

[dparsons]

Absolutely.

I note he didn't have many US micros on his list of session beers, even though there are many that fit the bill. It seems they aren't emphasized.

[Stahlsturm]

I so agree.

Sometimes I think that people on beer boards want to talk about nothing else but extreme beers. It seems like a competition of who had the weirdest brew. Sceenster behaviour I know (and hate) from Metal message boards all too well.

[guildofevil]

Session beers are a must.

I like my big beers and have been know to knock out a high IBU IPA one in a while, but I always make sure that there is an easy drinking beer on tap, for when I just want to have a couple of pints with some friends.

Just finished off a cornie of 5% ale last night.

22 IBU's of East Kent Goldings, so not too bitter; mashed at 65 Celsius, so not too much body; plenty of crystal malt, for a flavour on the malty side and 10% wheat in the grist for that little bit of something unexpected, in there somewhere. Fermented out with safeale-s04. Damn easy beer to make and drink.

More than one of my friends thought it was my best beer yet.

[steveh]

Originally posted by dparsons
I note he didn't have many US micros on his list of session beers

Hmm? Look at the list again, he pretty much split the beers down the middle between big breweries and Micros (though I'm not sure what Penn's status is, I figure it's closer to a micro).

And of course he qualifies with, "Not a comprehensive list, but you get the idea."

S.

[steveh]

And our own Stan chimes in at his own blog. (http://appellationbeer.com/blog/)

This is getting complicated...

S.

[jesskidden]

What always amazes me, is that at the same time that beers have gotten "bigger", the typical serving size in most US bars (altho' I suppose this varies from area and area, and is dependent on bar type) have ALSO gotten bigger.

Where once (pre-micro era) a local bar might offer a glass of beer (typically a sham pilsner of 6-8 oz) or a mug (10-12 oz.), the new standard tends to be a mixing glass "pint" (14-16 oz) and if an alternative choice is offered, it's a "large" (often a 20+ oz. weiss beer style glass).

(I won't date myself by mentioning that I could throw down a dollar, have two glasses of Schaefer (hey, on tap it was nice and creamy), play 3 games of pinball and still leave a quarter tip.)

I always wonder if the "sham pint" isn't also a way for some bar owners to hire less help, since a bartender, in theory, wouldn't be as busy filling "pints" as they would keeping smaller glasses topped up.

When I toured the UK for real ale, we were good-naturedly "informed" that the half pint was seen as a unit used by old ladies but we didn't care since, in a free house, we were going to try as many beers as possible. And then we'd notice that we might be on our 3rd or 4th half pint and most of the locals were still nursing their first imperial pint...

[Stonch]

If I may chime in here, I'm surprised by Lew's definition of a session beer being below 5.5%abv - surely that's way too high a threshold and 4.5% would be more appropriate? Anything of 5%abv or above will get you lashed if you do a session on it...

__________________
Visit my beer blog - http://stonch.blogspot.com

[jesskidden]

Originally posted by Stonch
If I may chime in here, I'm surprised by Lew's definition of a session beer being below 5.5%abv - surely that's way too high a threshold and 4.5% would be more appropriate?

Not in the States (unfortunately), where such beers are almost impossible to find, except in the "light" segment.

[chazwicke]

My definition would be 5% and under. And I prefer under.
Coniston Bluebird - YUM!

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by chazwicke
My definition would be 5% and under. And I prefer under.
Coniston Bluebird - YUM!

A typical Hell (which I would assume qualifies as a session beer) is between 4,8 and 5,5. I've made a few experiments and within that range it works just fine :D

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stonch
If I may chime in here, I'm surprised by Lew's definition of a session beer being below 5.5%abv -

He discusses that under the heading What's a Session Beer? "...especially since my definition doesn't necessarily jibe with the standard one..."

He goes on to make his point that 5.5 is his highest limit for drinking at a moderate pace. Although, since Lew is a big guy (successful diet or not, his stature is noteable), and his business is drinking beer for a living - his tolerance may be a bit stronger than many of us. I agree with most that 5% and below is quite nice.

Stahl, Helles is the 3rd style category in his list.

S.

[Stahlsturm]

Originally posted by steveh
I agree with most that 5% and below is quite nice. Stahl, Helles is the 3rd style category in his list.

S.

You'll be hard pressed to find a Hell with under 5 % around here but most aren't far over that. The same goes for most Märzen and Dunkel.

[MeridianFC]

As with most above 5% would be the outer limit abv% wise for me, though as is noted in the US beers of lower strength are very hard to find. I realize that in the UK 5% is "strong".

There's also the issue of taste. I think you could have a 4.5% beer but if it's flavored with pine and licorice it's probably not really a session beer not matter how modest the alcohol.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Stahlsturm
You'll be hard pressed to find a Hell with under 5 % around here but most aren't far over that.

Sorry, didn't mean to combine my 5% preference with the confirmation that Helles was on Lew's short list of session beers, but yes - a nice Helles at 5.5 is often more palatable to me than an American IPA at 7.2.

S.

[Lew Bryson]

Originally posted by dparsons
Absolutely.

I note he didn't have many US micros on his list of session beers, even though there are many that fit the bill. It seems they aren't emphasized.

Just getting started, dude: gimme a few weeks!

Thanks for the support, everyone. All's good so far...after three days.

[chazwicke]

Lew, your on the right track with this. THANKS!

Chuck Triplett

[D0nc0smic]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
As with most above 5% would be the outer limit abv% wise for me, though as is noted in the US beers of lower strength are very hard to find. I realize that in the UK 5% is "strong".

There's also the issue of taste. I think you could have a 4.5% beer but if it's flavored with pine and licorice it's probably not really a session beer not matter how modest the alcohol.
well its hard to find any DECENT beer in the US that is under 5% ABV but alot of the cr the crap is, with all the light beer sold i'd even be willing to bet that most of the beer sold in the US is under 5%. But yea, in general low alchohol beers with interesting quality flavor are hard to find

[Stonch]

The English and the Czechs would appear to be world champions of session beers.

In reference to the Czechs, a lot of people may not be aware that the 12degree beers commonly exported are far less popular in the country of their origin, and instead weaker 10degree beers are more popular. Dark beers like Kozel Cerne and Krusovice Cerne are often in the region of 3.7%-4%abv, so are even more sessionable.

I had a great session beer experience on Thursday. Got myself a new job and headed to the local to celebrate. The St Peter's Mild was on and in perfect condition. In all I drank 6 (imperial) pints but wasn't drunk and didn't have a hangover the next day. Perfect for a weekday.
__________________
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[Jake]

Someone please enlighten me here. My definition of a drinking session must be quite different from what is considered a drinking session. That might be due to my situation. First off I don't go out and drink at bars. My drinking is always done at home. Secondly none of my friends drink. So a drinking session for me centers around 4 activities. 1) watching a movie. 2) watching a football or baseball game. 3) playing Xbox games with a friend. 4) Relaxing out on the veranda taking in the sun set.

These sessions usually start around 7:30PM and go to around 10:30PM. I drink 3 beers during that time and almost always consist of a high ABV ale. For example this weekend starting with last night I watched a movie with the wife and drank 3 Bell's Best Brown Ales (6.6% ABV). Tonight its going to be Xbox with 3 Sierra Nevada Celebration (6.8% ABV). Tomorrow it will be the Super Bowl and I might be drinking 3 of the two beer mention above or Sierra Nevada Pale Ale (5.6% ABV). That is my drinking sessions.

[steveh]

Jake, the truest, oldest definition of a session beer is one beer that you can enjoy over a long period of time (session) without getting "overwhelmed." Be it from too much alcohol (the usual thought) or too much assertive flavor or body.

In other words, few people would call a Barley Wine or Imperial Stout or Doppelbock a session beer.

Check out Lew's blog, it has more detailed insight and very good essays. The link is in my first post on this thread.

S.

[MeridianFC]

I believe inherent in the definition of "Session" would be 1. a bar/tavern/pub, 2. people, 3. craic/good times/gemutlichkeit and 4. an indeterminate amount of time that is A. more than "a swift half"/"a quick one"/"one for the road" but B. less than a crawl/spree/fest.

[Jake]

I think Warsteiner Verum would be a good session beer. The price is not bad and ABV is not to high. Even though its not in the great beer category I find myself buying this beer every once in awhile.

[clcoyle]

I think Happy Wife is a good session beer.

[ratman03]

As with a lot of things, subtlety is often overlooked. Myself, I can't stomach the Beer Advocate type of beer drinker, who is more into the image than anything (and yes, that is a sweeping generalization).

Although many of us lament the attention paid to the Imperial this and that, there are a lot of good U.S. session beers.

Sam Adams Boston Lager is 4.9% abv and that's a session beer if there ever was one.

Stoudt's Scarlet Lady and Pale ale are around 5%...

There are many more, you just have to look.

[dparsons]

Originally posted by steveh
Hmm? Look at the list again, he pretty much split the beers down the middle between big breweries and Micros (though I'm not sure what Penn's status is, I figure it's closer to a micro).

And of course he qualifies with, "Not a comprehensive list, but you get the idea."

S.

I guess I was considering imports as a separate class. Lots of beer that (from a US point of view) are imports.

[steveh]

Originally posted by dparsons
I guess I was considering imports as a separate class. Lots of beer that (from a US point of view) are imports.

I wasn't counting the imports when I said he has micros as half his list. Here are the ones he's included:

Examples: porter (Geary's London Porter, Boulevard Bully Porter). helles (Victory Lager), hefeweizen (Penn), most pilsner (Stoudt's,), brown ale (BridgePort Beertown Brown), steam beer (Anchor Steam), dunkel (Sly Fox Dunkel, Victory Dark Lager), witbier (Allagash White, Blue Moon Belgian White), kölsch (Cap City Kölsch).

Yeah, those are all American micros (well, maybe not Blue Moon) on his (not so comprehensive) list.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by ratman03
Sam Adams Boston Lager is 4.9% abv and that's a session beer if there ever was one.

Somewhere in the discussions at Lew's blog someone quotes Jim Koch as insistent that the Boston Lager isn't a session beer. Don't know why he's so insistent, maybe he feels "session beer" isn't very flattering.

Quoting Lew himself, "Okay...Jim Koch steadfastly denies that Sam Adams is a session beer, in those exact words. Maybe he's going with the strict Brit interpretation, dunno."

S.

[Jake]

Originally posted by ratman03
As with a lot of things, subtlety is often overlooked. Myself, I can't stomach the Beer Advocate type of beer drinker, who is more into the image than anything.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many times the Alstrom Bros give pretty fair ratings to what is being called subtle session beers. Surprisingly even to some American Macro brews.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Jake
Many times the Alstrom Bros give pretty fair ratings to what is being called subtle session beers. Surprisingly even to some American Macro brews.

It does seem that the Brothers are more diverse in their tastes than their forum members. Todd even told me he would drink a well made Lager over a run-of-the-mill ale any day.

S.

[chazwicke]

Although Steveh tells me that it has probably been discontinued I had a New Glarus Native Ale last night from my beer fridge. It was an English style Brown Ale and was yummy. I'm not certain of the ABV. I can't find it listed on NG's site or at BA but I'm betting this beer falls into the session range.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by steveh
[b]

Todd even told me he would drink a well made Lager over a run-of-the-mill ale any day.

S.

As would I, though that statement makes it sound like Lager is some poor cousin in the beer community.

[steveh]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
As would I, though that statement makes it sound like Lager is some poor cousin in the beer community.

For the most part, it is - to no one's fault than BMC, but I don't know why the statement highlights it.

What I didn't specify is that there are probably more run-of-the-mill ales out there than anything on the shelves. How many APAs can anyone really take over a lifetime?

S.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by steveh
For the most part, it is - to no one's fault than BMC, but I don't know why the statement highlights it.

What I didn't specify is that there are probably more run-of-the-mill ales out there than anything on the shelves. How many APAs can anyone really take over a lifetime?

S.

It's the "I'd rather push a (Chevy/Ford/whatever) than drive a (Chevy/Ford/whatever) scenario. It's what the statement connontates. I think most right thinking drinkers would rather have a good (whatever) than and average (whatever), so in the pointing out the willingness to drink good lager seems to suggest that under normal circumstances it wouldn't be a usual choice.

As far as the second part, you're certainly right mostly because there are just more ales out there (as specific beers as opposed to total volume) than lagers.

Personally I think the distribution of fairly average APA/Amber types doesn't make sense. In most cases the local version of the brew is usually good and certainly can trump most things on freshness (for those who have a local version).

[chazwicke]

I'm up for any of them as long as they are well made and taste good. Sometimes I'm in the mood for a pale ale, sometimes a lager. What I don't like is that it now seems as if "Today's APA is yesterday's IPA". The styles have shifted somewhat. Years ago IPA was a favorite style of mine. Because of the trend toward higher IBUs and ABVs I think many APAs have edged into the old definition of IPA. And IPAs have pushed the limit into imperial territory. Just give us a well made pale ale, bitter, or mild as well as some clean, precision lagers and I'd be happy as a clam. I do like some of the bigger styles but only a fraction of the time and not all of the time.

[D0nc0smic]

Originally posted by steveh
. How many APAs can anyone really take over a lifetime?

S.
Quite a few really. judging from my consumption over the last few years. Though i do prefer that they be good ones.

[steveh]

Originally posted by D0nc0smic
Though i do prefer that they be good ones.

Even if they are good, they're all the same - or damn near close. I finally cancelled my long-time subscription to a beer-of-the-month club because I'd received my 12th 12 pack of Pale Ale.

Time for you to move on too Don, there's a whole variety of good beer to be had out there. You can always sneak an APA when you feel the need.

S.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by Jake
[b]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Many times the Alstrom Bros give pretty fair ratings to what is being called subtle session beers. Surprisingly even to some American Macro brews.

Much of what I've read from those guys and on that site in the past revolved around 'Big Beer' worship, which has more or less become the BA calling card. Hey, gotta keep the beer hipsters happy I guess... :rolleyes:

[ratman03]

Originally posted by steveh
Somewhere in the discussions at Lew's blog someone quotes Jim Koch as insistent that the Boston Lager isn't a session beer. Don't know why he's so insistent, maybe he feels "session beer" isn't very flattering.

Quoting Lew himself, "Okay...Jim Koch steadfastly denies that Sam Adams is a session beer, in those exact words. Maybe he's going with the strict Brit interpretation, dunno."

S.

I don't get this either, but perhaps Koch thinks it has some type of negative connotation in the U.S. to your average beer drinker. Then again, what *average* U.S. beer drinker even knows the term 'session beer'?

[clcoyle]

Originally posted by steveh
How many APAs can anyone really take over a lifetime?

S.



I'll let you know, if an estimate is okay.

[steveh]

Originally posted by clcoyle
I'll let you know, if an estimate is okay.

Allow me to redirect you to another thread. (http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13820)

Chaz has probably been drinking good beer just a little longer than me, but I have to agree with him in that the old APA is just mundane anymore. Give me your estimate after 18 years or so of citrus hops repetition.

S.

[MeridianFC]

For me the APA is best appreciated at the local brewpub where the freshness really makes this type of beer shine. Most stuff in the bottle is "good" but rarely more than that.

[jalstromer]

Originally posted by ratman03
As with a lot of things, subtlety is often overlooked. Myself, I can't stomach the Beer Advocate type of beer drinker, who is more into the image than anything (and yes, that is a sweeping generalization).

Although many of us lament the attention paid to the Imperial this and that, there are a lot of good U.S. session beers.

Sam Adams Boston Lager is 4.9% abv and that's a session beer if there ever was one.

Stoudt's Scarlet Lady and Pale ale are around 5%...

There are many more, you just have to look.

Wow, you really do hold on to a grudge ... the generalization of a "Beeradvocate Drinker" is way off base. Laughable and borderline bigotry in a way.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by jalstromer
Wow, you really do hold on to a grudge ... the generalization of a "Beeradvocate Drinker" is way off base. Laughable and borderline bigotry in a way.

Wow. :rolleyes:

[steveh]

Originally posted by jalstromer
... the generalization of a "Beeradvocate Drinker" is way off base.

Even with recent comments such as, "Not adventuresome enough with their beers (all about 5% ABV)?"

Though I know that you and Todd champion beer of all styles, you have to admit that there's a definite bias toward in-your-face brews by your membership. It's a BeerAdvocate characteristic that has been growing a long time and recognized pretty universally.

Not that RateBeer isn't a little skewed to the high ABV side too and we have our own hopheads around here, but it seems there's little love for a nice, mellow and drinkable beer in your 'hood.

S.

[newportstorm]

Glad to have a local brewery, Buzzards Bay, that offers several beers under 5% abv - meaning polishing off a half-gallon growler in an afternoon is a breeze.

Their:

Black Lager - 4.7% abv
Pilsner - 4.5% abv
English Pale Ale - 4.5% abv
Dortmunder - 4.5% abv

Those are yearround styles, but even their summer Hefe and fall/winter Altbier are at or below 5%.

They've polled brewery visitors to gauge interest in bigger beer styles (which they have done with their 7.5% Okto and big Doppelbock). Honestly though, I don't see the need to, unless they want to attract the uber beer geek into the fold.
They have done some off the wall stuff - their interpretations of a Cranberry Lambic and an upcoming Farmhouse Ale - but having a stable full of session beers is a nice thing to have locally.

[chazwicke]

Bill Madden makes several beers under the 5% range out at Vintage 50. All very nice beers. At the recent beer dinner at V50 there was some discussion of milds and public perception. I heard about at least one instance where a beer was a dark mild in style and was named and billed as such. Sales were slow. It was renamed without the mild billing and it sold well. So perception is a big part. Vehicles like Lew's Blog will help educate and re educate those whom have the perception that only big beers are worthy of atttention. One of the finest American real ales that I've ever had on cask was an occasional brew made by Victory. I was lucky enough to be there once when they had their Milltown Mild on cask and it was exquisite. Closest I have ever come to an American cask being in league with some of the finer British cask offerings.

[MeridianFC]

Not that I don't love big beers, I do, but I believe for a lot of brewers high IBUs and straospheric ABV% hides a multitude of sins.

Further, as I've said before, if a brewer can pack enough flavor into a brew that I can be happy sipping one but safe drinking 6, well he's done a man's job.

Can we just kumbaya over this whole BA/RB thing?

[fretlessman71]

Paging Mr. King.... Mr. Rodney King... :D

I do agree. Let's let the sites be what they are instead of running to another site to complain about the one.


Seriously, I can do this...

[steveh]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Those are yearround styles, but even their summer Hefe and fall/winter Altbier are at or below 5%.

Doesn't sound very adventuresome. :rolleyes:

S.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by steveh
Doesn't sound very adventuresome. :rolleyes:

S. Just sing Kum-Ba-Yah and go with the flow, Steve... easy, now...

[MeridianFC]

Someone's drinking now
kumbaya my lord kymbaya
Someone's drinking now....

[fretlessman71]

That's ALMOST a haiku! Can you work on that? :)

[studentofbeer]

thought y'all might be interested to see that eric asimov (wine editor at the nytimes) posted about lew's blog on his blog, with some ensuing discussion.

http://thepour.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/13/when-beer-goes-over-the-top/#comments

[Randybo]

What i see through most of the discussions here is that everyone likes a session beer most of the time but they also want some of the over the top beers for those days when they want to be a little different and cut loose a little.
ENJOY THE OBSESSION:cool: