exploding thermometer

[piratedrunk]

Anyone ever have this happen before?

Last night I brewed my first 10-gallon batch. We used a turkey fryer propane flame under a stainless steel keg to boil the full volume. Steeping went OK, although the temp was down to 140 due to the fact that it's pretty chilly and the keg was not insulated. At this point the outside temp was around 40F. We removed the steeping bags and the thermometer and added the extract and hops, relit the flame and stirred. After a while, but before the boil, we attempted to reinsert the thermeter and POW! as soon as it touched the wort. Glass shards galore.

Crap.

Apparently the sudden, extreme temperature change did not treat the glass kindly. We were able to fish out the actual thermometer and from what we could tell the mercury was still contained. Just the exterior glass and the weighted ball bearings remained in the keg.

The worst part is, we didn't even NEED a temp check, as we were just working toward a boil. Due to the absense of mercury, we figure it will still be drinkable. We'll just be careful not to drink the sediment!

[dparsons]

No, not with thermometers. It really shouldn't happen as cooking equipment has to be made to deal with some thermal shock. I expect the thermometer glass was already weakened from something else happening to it.

[chazwicke]

Are you certain that the mercury was contained? Otherwise you'd probably have to toss your whole pot and any equiptment that came in contact with the contaminated wort.

[toneyc]

Yeah, I had that happen to me early on and switched to electronic thermometers. The ballast in mine was lead balls so I poured it all out.

:(
Toney.

[Daniel James]

That really stinks, Pirate. I too would be cautious as to what you do with this brew. Mercury poisioning and unsuspecting glass chards do not sound fun to be around. Despite the precautions that you took, I would be hesitant to serve this beer.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Daniel James
Despite the precautions that you took, I would be hesitant to serve this beer.

I'm thinking I would have tossed the specialty-grain-laden water and started over

[Daniel James]

Originally posted by HogieWan
I'm thinking I would have tossed the specialty-grain-laden water and started over

A sad sacrifice, but probably the best idea. There will be more, I hope!

[piratedrunk]

Thanks for the advice. My wife, predictably, is on the side of caution too. I'm going to try to figure out if the bearings were lead and if the liquid was mercury. If not on both counts, then the worst that can happen is a lacerated esophagus from the shards, right? Ugh, this sucks.

Dumping it and starting over wasn't an option. The thermometer broke after all the extract and bittering hops were added. No more ingredients to make another batch. The best we could've done was saved the finishing hops and yeast, but we forged ahead. I'm not claiming this to be a valid reason to drink poison, but it was either finish the batch or pack up and go home.

Fortunately (for me) none of the equpiment used was mine. I guess that's kind of mean to say, but the other guys seem willing to drink the batch anyway. I'll let you know their prognosis ...

[HogieWan]

the glass SHOULD settle (I probably wouldn't risk it, though)

[chazwicke]

I know they close down buildings here to clean up after even the tiniest mercury spills. I'd discard the equiptment too.

[DecoJuicer]

I once had a pilsner that I had lagered for quite a while. In the process of moving the carboy, I broke the top and sent glass into the beer. I was getting ready to keg it. I probably could have strained it though a coffee filter, but I, like you wife, chose caution.

I would discard the beer at the very least. One batch of beer is not worth your health or well being. Also, if I even suspected that the mercury wasn't contained, I would throw the equipment away as well.

From the CDC(Center for Disease Control):

How can mercury affect my health?

The nervous system is very sensitive to all forms of mercury. Methylmercury and metallic mercury vapors are more harmful than other forms, because more mercury in these forms reaches the brain. Exposure to high levels of metallic, inorganic, or organic mercury can permanently damage the brain, kidneys, and developing fetus. Effects on brain functioning may result in irritability, shyness, tremors, changes in vision or hearing, and memory problems.

Short-term exposure to high levels of metallic mercury vapors may cause effects including lung damage, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, increases in blood pressure or heart rate, skin rashes, and eye irritation.

Long-term exposure can occur from using contaminated equipment.

Your choice though.

[Mill Rat]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I know they close down buildings here to clean up after even the tiniest mercury spills. I'd discard the equiptment too.

Lets take this step-by-step before this guy tosses out half his brewery.

First off, since there was discussion regarding the counterweight BBs, this was a floating thermometer with a larger glass envelope around the actual thin glass stick (capillary tube) thermometer inside. If that inner stick did not break, nothing's been released with the potential to ruin the anything but the beer. The pellets will likely be lead because it is heavy and cheap. Lead exposure is still nothing to sneeze at. Dump the beer.

Now let's assume the stick inside broke. The question is if mercury was even involved. Most thermometers produced today for measuring temperatures anywhere near ambient use an alcohol for the fluid in the capillary tube, not mercury. Most mercury thermometers are either antiques or precision laboratory thermometers, which cost considerably more than what a homebrew shop would retail.

Assuming that the thermometer fluid was red, blue, or anything but a shiny silverish metallic color, you now have some unknown alcohol in your brew. Best case it might give you a nasty hangover, but it will not have leached into your brewing equipment to any significant extent. Dump the beer, keep the equipment.

If in the rare circumstance that you had a mercury thermometer, the fluid must be a silvery metallic color. If its fluid wasn't silvery, it wasn't mercury. You now have to do three things:
1) Dispose of the brewing equipment that came in contact with the mercury.
2) Dump of the beer.
3) Remediate the mercury. This might complicate 1 and 2.

As has been explained in (appropriately) nauseating detail, metallic mercury is a fairly nasty biological and ecological poison. Dumping it down the drain is not really an option. If you brewed it up with the beer, though, you might have done just that with it laying doggo beneath the trub. Since it is only minimumally soluble in water, if you haven't dumped it out with trub or other dregs, you should be able to capture it in a small glass jar with a lid as you dump your beer. Since it is nearly as heavy as lead, it will be sitting in small silvery liquid balls at the bottom of whatever vessel it is in. Capture it in the glass jar and call you local fire department of equivalent, they typically will know who to call on for disposal of nasty substances.

Here's your worst case scenario: You had a mercury thermometer, you had a bunch of hops, spent grain, trub, etc., that you left in the bottom of the kettle and dumped into a compost pile. Do not put that compost into your garden! One part of my firm does environmental remediation. If you have gone and dumped this mercury into the great outdoors, let me know and I will find out from my associates what you should do in response.

[Vienna Lager]

If on the up side no Mercury was involved then you only have glass shards to deal with. You could bottle what you have and serve each bottle with a slice or bread. The bread will adhere to the glass shards that may be injested saving your esophagus and stomach.

The problem is your stomach juices will digest the bread cushioning the glass and the trip through your small and large intestines will be what is most noticed.

[piratedrunk]

Vienna Lager, I like your spirit! While your method will preserve the upper half of my digestive track, I'd like both halves to be in working order. I'm not drinking the beer and will try to convince my brewing partners not to as well.

As I mentioned at the beginning, I THINK the inner tube containing the mercury (or whatever it was) was unbroken. I don't know what was done with said inner tube. I will try to find out. We were brewing outside after sundown, so we were relying on flashlight illumination.

After chilling the wort, it was siphoned into two plastic 5 gallon buckets. The trub was dumped in the backyard. Using the flashlight, we couldn't see any ball bearings or glass (or globules of shiny grey material, for that matter). It's possible that the alleged mercury got siphoned into the fermenters since the ciphon went down to the bottom of the boiling keg.

I think the thermometer came from the same LHB store I buy from. My floating thermometer has blue liquid. I called them up today to ask if they sell mercury thermometers as well. He said yes, but then didn't seem to understand that if the liquid was blue then it WASN'T mercury. He also said that if you boil the keg, the mercury would go away. So I'm not trusting his information. I need to get in touch with the thermometer's owner. He and I are mutual friends of the third guy and hadn't met before the other night. Twas the night after christmas...

[chazwicke]

When I was a kid in the 60s my buddy had a glass chemical jar with mercury in it. we used to handle it. Quicksilver. We'd pour it into our hands and play with it. I'm certain there was probably mercury spilled in his house. We also used to make gunpowder with our chemistry sets and some additional purchased items.

Now I'm wondering if that's whats wrong with me some 40 years later.:eek:

[Vienna Lager]

I remember Junior High science class and Mercury was something every class member would place in the palm of their hand to see what charateristics it had.

The class cabinets lining one wall had all sorts of nasties contained (until the teacher opened them up) in those glass jars with glass stoppers.

[Vienna Lager]

Look on the bright side pirate, at least you are not dealing with what Upton Sinclaire wrote about in 'The Jungle'.

Or what Ivan Denesovich (sp?) was faced with in his soup.

[Jared]

I've never seen a mecury thermometer. Lead balls tho? Gee I don't know about that.
Filter the beer with some pads from the LHBS to remove any glass that may come off the bottom and drink it!

[Mill Rat]

Originally posted by piratedrunk
I think the thermometer came from the same LHB store I buy from. My floating thermometer has blue liquid. I called them up today to ask if they sell mercury thermometers as well. He said yes, but then didn't seem to understand that if the liquid was blue then it WASN'T mercury. He also said that if you boil the keg, the mercury would go away. So I'm not trusting his information. I need to get in touch with the thermometer's owner. He and I are mutual friends of the third guy and hadn't met before the other night. Twas the night after christmas...

If this thermometer was bought from a LHBS any time in the last 20 years, I'd be very surprised if it contained mercury. It's not commonly used anymore simply because it is more expensive than the alternatives.

The guy at the LHBS is far from alone in his confusion over what liquid is in thermometers. He is right, though, that boiling temperatures would eventually vaporize any mercury present. That's one brew kettle, though, that I would not want to be breathing anywhere downwind of it.

[piratedrunk]

Originally posted by Mill Rat
The guy at the LHBS is far from alone in his confusion over what liquid is in thermometers. He is right, though, that boiling temperatures would eventually vaporize any mercury present. That's one brew kettle, though, that I would not want to be breathing anywhere downwind of it.

Yeah, I shared his confustion until this debacle. But I don't SELL the friggin' things. The merchant really should have an idea of what he's selling, imo. I think he was just an employee and not the owner, though. I didn't recognize his voice.

OK, assuming I can definitively figure out that there was no mercury involved, I'm leaning toward taking my chances with the glass and lead. Hell, we all grew up eating lead paint. And as long as we don't rack from the very bottom of the bucket, the glass should not be an issue.

Does lead even disolve in boiling water?

[Mill Rat]

Originally posted by piratedrunk
Yeah, I shared his confustion until this debacle. But I don't SELL the friggin' things. The merchant really should have an idea of what he's selling, imo. I think he was just an employee and not the owner, though. I didn't recognize his voice.

OK, assuming I can definitively figure out that there was no mercury involved, I'm leaning toward taking my chances with the glass and lead. Hell, we all grew up eating lead paint. And as long as we don't rack from the very bottom of the bucket, the glass should not be an issue.

Does lead even disolve in boiling water? Don't get too worked up about someone who doesn't know the constituent components of the products they sell. Hell, I'd bet half the Chrysler dealers' sales force couldn't tell you what part of a hemi engine is shaped like a hemisphere unless there was a special corporate effort to educate them in this critical technological issue.

If you want to save the beer, the least I'd do is run it through a sanitized funnel with a tight-weave filter disc or paper filter installed (also sanitized) to keep the glass out. As for the lead, metallic lead is negligibly soluble in water. It will go into solution as a salt, such as lead sulfate, carbonate, or chloride, to name a few I'd expect to see. I wouldn't be able to tell you what to expect on that front in a mixture of wort and lead without doing a hell of a lot more research than I'm ready to do at this moment. Maybe someone who plays around with this sort of chemistry far more frequently than I do can help out.

[Daniel James]

I'm leaning toward taking my chances with the glass and lead.

It might hurt a little on the way "out" if you know what I mean...

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by Mill Rat
Don't get too worked up about someone who doesn't know the constituent components of the products they sell. Hell, I'd bet half the Chrysler dealers' sales force couldn't tell you what part of a hemi engine is shaped like a hemisphere unless there was a special corporate effort to educate them in this critical technological issue.

If you want to save the beer, the least I'd do is run it through a sanitized funnel with a tight-weave filter disc or paper filter installed (also sanitized) to keep the glass out. As for the lead, metallic lead is negligibly soluble in water. It will go into solution as a salt, such as lead sulfate, carbonate, or chloride, to name a few I'd expect to see. I wouldn't be able to tell you what to expect on that front in a mixture of wort and lead without doing a hell of a lot more research than I'm ready to do at this moment. Maybe someone who plays around with this sort of chemistry far more frequently than I do can help out.

I was reading this, as it wa slinked in another thread.

I might try an track down the shot in the yard, just to seewhat it was. If you can find it, heat it up, if it does not melt easily, it ain't lead.

I busted a thermometer a couple of years back, and upon calling the brew store, they basically told me not to worry about it, that the shot was not lead. It was an alcohol thermo, but we did not bust the tube. For the record, we drank the beer.

On to lead solubility....Mill rat nailed right, lead is not very soluble in water. However, lead solubility increases in the low pH environments...such as wort that has a pH of aorund 4.9.
BTW, mercury & and other heavy meatals also share this characteristc. Again as mill rat said, there is not any easy way to understand how much lead might have gone into solution, but to the complex reactions that everything in wort could generate. For my money, I'd bet that it would end out as a solid precipitate, and settle to the bottom of your bottles, so don't drink everything. I believe there are home test kits out there that will test for lead in your water. If it cheap enough, grab a kit, test your brewing water source & the beer in question. If your have a positive result, do not drink the beer.

A final comment: In terms of risk and exposure, I'd be willing to bet good money, or at least a case of my finest IIPA, that is really nothing to worry about here. In the one hour period of time that you boiled the wort, very lead if any would go into solution off of that shot. Any IF there was any lead I imagine that it is a very low concentration, and as long as there is not any other lead in your diet, you'd be OK, as it is not an acute dose, but a chronic dose. And as long as you do not have other chronic lead dosing, you're okay.

[HarkJohnny]

yep, been there, done that. started using metal thermometers after thta!

[Frit]

I was the aforementioned "other guy" from this disaster. Strange to run across this after all this time. It was a food grade thermometer, blue alcohol and the shot was steel. For the record, we drank the beer over a year ago and we all survived. It was actually pretty good.

[Mad Scientist]

Hehe...nice to know I was right.

[piratedrunk]

Speak for yourself, frit. I died of mercury and lead poisoning while coughing up blood and shards of glass. :(

Seriously, though, the beer ended up very tasty! Glass Shard Ale, it was dubbed. Maybe steel bearings enhance the flavor of beer.