How true.

[steveh]

From a Lew Bryson "The Buzz," October 2006.

"It was our job to test the mettle of these whoppers. We faced imperial nut browns, double (or triple) pilseners, overcharged malt liquors ("What’s this," I asked, "Olde English 1100?"), and super wits. It’s easy to make fun of beers like this – and I have, in the past – but there were two disturbing aspects in the beers entered in this category.

"First, this is what passes for much of the vaunted "innovation" in American brewing: turning up the volume. Honestly, I realize that it’s not as simple as just dumping in more malt. There are issues of yeast health, proper attenuation, and maintaining drinkability. But come on. What we’re talking about is a couple brewers sitting around and saying, "Damn, wouldn’t it be cool if we made a bitter at 9%? Dude, that would ROCK!"

I need to check Lew's site more often. Read it all, he's echoing my own thoughts. http://www.lewbryson.com/buzz1006.htm

S.

[chazwicke]

Both you and Lew are right. I'm so tired of "imperial" this and "imperial" that. I've been drinking more lagers myself lately. Much more. Because I'm not really interested in these huge beers all of the time. Lagers have been a very welcome respite from the over the top brews. Especially some of the German Oktoberfests. And I've been drinking some Schwartzbiers and Pilsners too.
Here is a post that I wrote in an earlier thread and it captures how I feel about this issue:

"I was impressed by the Sam Adams limited release Imperial Pils last year. I had expected less but was pleasantly suprised. I often shy away from the new "imperial" beers because I'm not as interested in over the top alcohol or IBU flavors. They have their place but I don't want them as regular drinking or session brews at all. In fact, 10 years ago, my favorite style offered up by American brewers was IPA. This is no longer the case. Todays APAs are the IPAs of that era. Today's IPAs have gone over the top. And recently, I've found myself bored with APAs a little bit too. Sort of seems that they are all becoming the same and brewers are off trying to come up with newer, weirder, bigger styles and have left the staple styles to languish a bit. I wish they would concentrate on some of the Pale Ales and make them very well instead of making adequate APAs and spending time on the specialty brews. I've actually been enjoying lagers this fall season more than some of the ales. (Excepting the cask conditioned variety)."

I'd just like to see brewers making consistantly good basic brews than trying to out do the newest Imperial brew.

[MeridianFC]

To me it seems like everyone is trying to make cake an entree, if you get my drift. Specialty beers should be just that, special.

I almost laughed out loud the other day at a recipe in the home brew section here that called for a final IBU of 300. I'm all for experimenting but it seems like the only experimental thing that's being done now is abv just shy of vodka or IBUs one leaf shy of eating raw hops.

In a few cases some of the double/imperial/whatever brews haven't managed to get the base beer right. Why brew an imperial Pilsner if you can't brew a good Pilsner in the first place ("Golden Showers"..cough..cough..cough)? I guess Imperial covers a multitude of sins as they say.

[corkybstewart]

I do like my big homebrews, but they're big on the malty side, less so on the hops side. And I think I've said it before, but one of my absolute most favorite beers is Odells's 90 Shilling. Nothing extrordinary by ways of hops or malt extremes, just a perfectly balanced beer. If only I could buy it around here it would be my "go to" beer

[eppie]

It's kinda like the Pamela Anderson school of looks. If a b-cup is better than an a-cup, than DDDDDDDDD is better than a c-cup. Sometimes more isn't better. more hops, more alcohol, does not make a beer better if it isn't balanced.
________
DesiredLuke cam (http://camslivesexy.com/cam/DesiredLuke)

[steveh]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
I'm all for experimenting but it seems like the only experimental thing that's being done now is abv just shy of vodka or IBUs one leaf shy of eating raw hops...

Why brew an imperial Pilsner if you can't brew a good Pilsner in the first place.

To quote Lew (in full agreement):
"I don’t think American brewers should stop innovating. I also judged strong barrel-aged beers, and although there were a few clinkers, this is a wonderful category of beers, started only 10 years ago. But after tasting a shocking number of beers that were tainted with diacetyl or DMS, beers that were oxidized or simply stale, I do think that maybe we should remember that it’s a good idea to master the basics before trying to improvise too much.

S.

[wortchillergoal]

I agree as well. i like my bvig beers but i like them from a style that has been that way for ages. Yes, I have a good double IPA but I think that style lends itself to being made bigger.

I find the timing of this interesting as a couple of my hockey buddies really enjoyed a low abv pale ale I made. They are after me to do it again or try another style beer lower in alcohol. They find it much tastier and easier to drink after playing a game of hockey.

I think brewers should try new things. I also think they should make sure it is good before rushing it to market with a cool name and a high abv that destorys all the flavor.

[hops99]

I read that article in Lew's "October Buzz" when it came out, and I also agree with the prevailing sentiment. At the end of the day, while I appreciate brewers trying to push the envelope (to a degree), just give me a GL Dortmunder or New Glarus Uff-Da Bock, or maybe even a simple Penn Gold.

On a semi-related note, I think Lew is somewhat of a rarity in the beer business; a guy who knows beer very well, and is also a terrific writer. I consistently enjoy his columns, and his "Breweries" series of books are a great reference as well.

[xtalman]

Always like to read Lew's take on things. I do agree that there are a load of truly awful "big" beers out there. I do enjoy the big beer but only if balanced. Stone falls into both these catagories IMHO. There Arrogant Bastard I find not to be very balanced, while their Smoked Porter or even the Ruination IPA I find to be nicely balanced but big.

I do find myself drinking Trader Joes Gordon Birsch lagers quite a bit now a days.

[HogieWan]

I have ~11 lbs of Marris Otter left, so instead of making one batch, I've decided to make 2 - a bitter and a mild. I'm starting to swing to the lower gravity myself.

[Lew Bryson]

Originally posted by HogieWan
I have ~11 lbs of Marris Otter left, so instead of making one batch, I've decided to make 2 - a bitter and a mild. I'm starting to swing to the lower gravity myself.

And so... it starts.

[dparsons]

Its all about good and not about more.

This past weekend I had an "over the top" Westmalle Trippel. Fantastic. I'd like to see something this good come down the American Innovation Pike!

[corkybstewart]

Originally posted by dparsons
Its all about good and not about more.

This past weekend I had an "over the top" Westmalle Trippel. Fantastic. I'd like to see something this good come down the American Innovation Pike!

"Over the top" to me means excessive, out of control. Westmalle trippel is the epitome of what great beer should taste like. Tonight seems to be my Trappist night. I had a Chimay Red with dinner, a Rochefort 8 after dinner and now I'm drinking an Orval as a nightcap.
On the other hand I got my Rare Beer of the Month Club selection today. An Imperial Pilsner, Golden Revolution, brewed by a Czech brewery but designed by Sam of Dogfish Head. I'm willing and eager to try any new beer, but I'm a little apprehensive about the very high IBU's and high ABV.

[dparsons]

Originally posted by corkybstewart
"Over the top" to me means excessive, out of control. Westmalle trippel is the epitome of what great beer should taste like.

Exactly! My "over the top" in quotes was typed tongue-in-cheek. It is so smooth someone might mistake it for a session beer - until they couldn't walk so well after 2 or 3. ;)

[ratman03]

I completely agree. I have started to feel this way lately as well. And, like Chaz, this is one of the reasons I have savored this year's German Oktos like never before. There's a lot to be said for drinking beer that is redolent of liquid bread; in fact, I'd forgotten just how great tasting that is.

I love the fact that American brewers are adventurous, and America's signature style, the west coast pale ale, is a great style. I believe the reason that many brewers have been pushing the envelope with BIG beers lately has to do with attempting to differentiate themselves. At this point, a lot has already been done in the craft beer segment, so people feel that the best way to stand out is to 'Go Big'. I'd rather they put their effort into making a classic beer instead of a shocking one, though.

I have more regard for Dog Fish Head, for example, for putting raisins and stuff like that in their beer than I do for the guys that just overfill the burrito (great analogy, by the way). And did somebody say 300 IBUs?!? We need to talk to the guy who submitted that recipe. Whoa there, cowboy...

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by ratman03
I believe the reason that many brewers have been pushing the envelope with BIG beers lately has to do with attempting to differentiate themselves. At this point, a lot has already been done in the craft beer segment, so people feel that the best way to stand out is to 'Go Big'.

Great point. I think we've said this before, but it is hard to be the brewer who says "I made the most slammin' full flavored easy drinking Pale Ale you ever had, with 35IBU and a kick ass 4.5%abv, it amber as hell man!".

[steveh]

Is there any reason they couldn't just say "We've made the most full-flavored, easy-drinking Pale Ale you've ever had"?

Excess doesn't always sell, sometimes it's just plain annoying.

S.

[MeridianFC]

It goes to 11.

:D

[steveh]

Case in point!

S.

[Sladek]

[i]...brewers are off trying to come up with newer, weirder, bigger styles and have left the staple styles to languish a bit.
I'd just like to see brewers making consistantly good basic brews than trying to out do the newest Imperial brew. [/B] It's like everything else in our culture of consipicuous consumption, isn't it? Everything has to be "new and improved!!" (usually is not) or "bigger and better!!" (again, not.) I've just bought a new computer system for the first time in 7 years. I have to say, it's all a crock of caca. "More powerful!! All the latest games!! Blah blah blah bling blah." Nevermind about quality, reliability, etc. FASTER!!! Nevermind the heat something like that puts out. We're so "of the moment" or "that's so five minutes ago" it makes me want to move to the Yukon Territory.

[jjpm74]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I'd just like to see brewers making consistantly good basic brews than trying to out do the newest Imperial brew. [/B]

There are plenty who do. SNPA is a perfect example of an APA that isn't over the top and hasn't been Imperialized or changed. Because of that, it's been criticized by many beer geeks. You say you find yourself bored of APAs. Bored of trying new ones or bored of APAs altogether?

I like big beers sometimes and basics other times. Right now, I'm on a Saison kick and have also been drinking lots of Baltic Porters and Bohemian Pils depending on what mood I'm in and trying many traditional European beers (mostly homebrewed versions since they can't be found locally) .

I'm thinking of brewing an Imperial Pale Lager (Coors Light on steriods). Any takers? :p

[Lew Bryson]

Originally posted by jjpm74
I'm thinking of brewing an Imperial Pale Lager (Coors Light on steriods). Any takers? :p

Been done: Country Club Malt Liquor.