Mash temp accident...should I worry?

[Pappy]

I had a little accident today while mashing a stout. Miscalculation led to initial mash temperature of 185 degrees!!! Yikes! I immediately cooled the mash kettle down with a cool water bath and managed to get the temp down to 158 in about 7-8 minutes. My question is how worried should I be? :eek:

[Beerconnoisseur]

Taste, and find out. Don't worry, just don't do this again.

[Fast_Eddy]

For several reasons I wouldn't sweat it. They are:

1) You can't undo it.

2) Even though your mash temp was about 175F it was only for a very short period of time. All of the enzymes were not denatured instantaneously so it still should've had plenty of diastatic power to convert the starches. You maybe could've let it mash a little longer to account for potential minor decreases in diastases.

3) The worse thing you could probably get is a little higher FG. A stout with maybe extra mouthfeel and residual sweetness wouldn't be so bad.

[brewmonkey]

Once you take the mash above 172F you start to denature the alpha/beta amalyase that you need for conversion. At 185 my guess would be that you did some pretty decent damage to it as well as the chance of leeching tannins from the husks at extreme temps like that.

[Fast_Eddy]

Oh wait after re-reading the original post.....was your initial mash temp 185F or was your strike water temp 185F - you said mash but I read it as strike. If your initial mash temp was that high(with 10 lbs grain and 3 gallons @ 202F?!?!?) you could very well be boned.

[Pappy]

Well, I got 1.050 out of it. The last time I did this recipe, the OG was 1.053. Just hoping now it doesn't taste nasty. The wort tastes fine (albeit a little bland) and I noticed no real astringency before pitching the yeast. Just wondering if that tannin nastiness would be evident already, or if it develops with fermentation. Thanks for the replies.

[brewmonkey]

Tannins would be evident but the overall composition of the wort would be such that other flavor profiles would overide it. Once it ferments out you might find the tannins.

[Fast_Eddy]

I wouldn't be surprised if the wort winds up being much less fermentable so don't be surprised if you have a higher than expected FG.

[Pappy]

Gravity at transfer to the secondary was at 1.026 and there's been VERY little activity. Might just be seeing that high FG as Eddy mentioned. No nastiness noted in the taste. We'll see....

[Fast_Eddy]

One thing of interest about this. I was re-reading some of "Designing Great Beers" while on the flight home from Canada and noticed that many Scotch(ish) ale brewers dough-in(according to the author) at between 180F and 190F for the specific reason of creating a higher dextrin less fermentable wort.

Just thought I'd share.

[Pappy]

Okay, yes, the FG never got below 1.025. However, I think I got the temp down before it had a chance to leech much of the tannins out of the husks. This turned out to be quite quaffable. Monday Night Football fans were very pleased and I found it to be surprisingly smooth and roasty. NO harsh off flavors. Another mistake that turned out just fine. Now, if I can only fix my other efficiency woes. Thanks for the input on this one.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
One thing of interest about this. I was re-reading some of "Designing Great Beers" while on the flight home from Canada and noticed that many Scotch(ish) ale brewers dough-in(according to the author) at between 180F and 190F for the specific reason of creating a higher dextrin less fermentable wort.

Just thought I'd share.


Going in with their strike liquor at 180-190, not the mash at those temps. Going in with a high strike liquor temp and allowing for a thicker mash the mash will favor the production of dextrins lending to a fuller beer. Using a higher strike temp if you have the right amount of liquor will land you in the mid-high 150's, Thicker mashes also favor a dextrinous wort. Combinging them together will give you an increadibly full bodied beer in the end.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
Going in with their strike liquor at 180-190, not the mash at those temps. Going in with a high strike liquor temp and allowing for a thicker mash the mash will favor the production of dextrins lending to a fuller beer. Using a higher strike temp if you have the right amount of liquor will land you in the mid-high 150's, Thicker mashes also favor a dextrinous wort. Combinging them together will give you an increadibly full bodied beer in the end.

I understood that that was the strike temp(180 to 190F) but Daniels doesn't mention, at least I don't recall it, that they use less liquor(thicker mash) and of course that makes a considerable difference in mash temp.

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Fast_Eddy
I understood that that was the strike temp(180 to 190F) but Daniels doesn't mention, at least I don't recall it, that they use less liquor(thicker mash) and of course that makes a considerable difference in mash temp.

No problem, I just wanted to make sure those reading this without the advantage of having a copy of the book understood that it was liquor temp and not mash temp. Mashing that high, as we have discussed is a problem.

He mentions the liquor to grist ratio being at 1.33 lbs to 1 quart liquor, but I try to go even thicker then that if I can. But you are right, I do not think he discusses the advantages/disadvantages of the mash thickness in that chapter.

Whats really sad is when you mentioned it I knew exactly the page to go to.....

My copy is old and tattered, one of these days I will buy a new one, but this one has been through a lot with me.

[Fast_Eddy]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
No problem, I just wanted to make sure those reading this without the advantage if having a copy of the book understood that it was liquor temp and not mash temp. Mashing that high, as we have discussed is a problem.

He mentions the liquor to grist ratio being at 1.33 lbs to 1 quart liquor, but I try to go even thicker then that if I can. But you are right, I do not think he discusses the advantages/disadvantages of the mash thickness in that chapter.

Whats really sad is when you mentioned it I knew exactly the page to go to.....

My copy is old and tattered, one of these days I will buy a new one, but this one has been through a lot with me.

It could be very mis-leading to think that the scots know a secret to prevent tannin leaching and enzyme denaturing. Still I can't compain about that book - it's one of the best.

Here's a question for you though - I done a couple of double decoction pils now but why don't they end up being astringent? The decoctions wind up much higher than saccarification(can never remember how to spell it) temp - I mean they're boiled for goodness sakes. Is it due to the light undermodified barley? I don't remember but if tannins are MRP's that are created during malting/kilning then I guess that would make some sense.

[brewmonkey]

I will get back with you on the tannins and undermodified malts. I believe you are correct in your post, but I have a buddy who only does decoctions so I will get with him on it.

I have not done more then a few decoctions in my time.