smoky flavor, Paul's black patent?

[gointomexico]

When I use this malt over 1/4 lb. per 5 gal. batch, i get a distinct smoky flavor, like a burning tire dump flavor. Has anyone else had this problem with Paul's malts, or black patent malt in general?

This has happened to me on two recipes so far. The first time, I used 1/2 lb of black patent. The second time I used 6 oz. both times I have had this burnt tire taste. When I use less than 1/4 oz, I don't have this problem.

Everyones input is welcome, as I am totally stumped. I mean, like outlandish guesses, bold accusations, insults, and even informative advice. The recipes:

Graduation Stout
.5lb Paul's Black Pat. Malt
.5lb Paul's Roasted Barley
.75lb Briess Crystal 120
4lb Muntons amber DME
1lb Corn Sugar
.5t Irish moss
1oz Northern brewer hops (90 min boil)
1vial White Labs Edinburgh Ale Yeast

Thankfully, I didn't take this to my friends graduation. Most people said that they didn't like it because of the strange aftertaste. I said, 'you mean the burnt oak taste?' I was wishing that it would age out. I was totally wrong. The grains were seeped in a grain bag, pre 170 degrees.

Export Stout
4lb can Montmellick stout kit
4lb Muntons DME amber
.5lb Briess Crystal 40
.75lb Muntons roasted barley
6oz Paul's black patent
1.75E. Kent Goldings (60min boil)
.25 East Kent Goldings (15min boil)
1t Irish moss
used safale red pack for yeast on this one.

Seeped grains, same as above. This beer is taking forever to age. Still has a green apple taste. However, I tasted the dreaded burnt tire! What is going on here?

I read somewhere that improper roasting of malt can cause a smoky flavor. Is this true? Who here has also had the same experience? Is it time for me to switch malting companies? Have I over done it with the black patent?:confused:

[dparsons]

A black patent malt should contribute a sharp burnt carbon/coffee type flavor. Not sulfery burned rubber. Have you tried a different brand? A different source? If the grain itself smells bad maybe its spoiled or something. I have not ever had the problem you describe. I have used black patent malts, but not Paul's.

[Mad Scientist]

I'd say switch to a different brand.

[gointomexico]

What would ya'll say is the best black patent and best chocolate malt? I don't like chalky, or burnt rubber taste. Im looking for a strong coffie aroma and/or flavor in the black patent, and a rich nutty flavor in the chocolate.

[JohnnyV]

I thought black patent was suppose to have a smokey taste? If you want coffee flavor, I thought you used roasted barley?


Am I mistaken/confused?

[gointomexico]

I thought black patent was suppose to have a smokey taste? If you want coffee flavor, I thought you used roasted barley?

I think your right. I had my wife smell my malts today, and she said that the black patent had a strong smokey smell.

[dparsons]

Yes, smokey could be a good description. Sorry if I confused people. There is a range of Lovibond on the black patent which would correspond to some variations in the flavor. I've used a darker (560 L) black patent. Ray Daniels calls the black patent flavor a "dry, burned bitterness with ashlike character." I've seen other references to higher lovibond black patent that call it "sharp." I had made the association in the final product flavor as being like coffee. I don't think of ash as being appetizing - even if black-patentized beer is.

I guess the important point is that it doesn't smell/taste like burned rubber. Rubber has sulfer in it and that should not be there.

[gointomexico]

I know this thread is old, but I found myself when searching smokey on google.

Anyways, if someone is trying to replicate left hand brews, its highly likely that they use black patent in all of there stouts. I taste the same smoke taste that I did with my old stout recipies.

[vance71975]

What would ya'll say is the best black patent and best chocolate malt? I don't like chalky, or burnt rubber taste. Im looking for a strong coffie aroma and/or flavor in the black patent, and a rich nutty flavor in the chocolate.

I would switch to Briess Malts, they may cost a tad more but are good quality, Also, In a stout you really shouldn't use Black Patent, it is used more in porter than stout, at least by modern standards and BJCP style guidelines. Just use roasted Barley.

Here is a Simple Stout to try and see if you get rid of that flavor.Mind you this is a VERY simple stout, but should get you the coffee flavor you want.But you shouldn't have that "burnt tire taste". I think maybe the reason you were getting it was too much heavily roasted malts. If you want that Coffee taste you can do one of two things, Add 4 cups Strong black Coffee to your priming liquid when you bottle OR you can Use Coffee Malt Which you can find on the Midwest brewing website if you cant get it locally.


5lbs Lightest LME you can find
1.00 lbs Crystal 80
.50 Coffee Malt
.50 Lbs Roasted Barley
1 Oz Fuggle or East Kent Goldings (60 min boil)
1 Package your fav English Ale Yeast

[vance71975]

When I use this malt over 1/4 lb. per 5 gal. batch, i get a distinct smoky flavor, like a burning tire dump flavor. Has anyone else had this problem with Paul's malts, or black patent malt in general?

This has happened to me on two recipes so far. The first time, I used 1/2 lb of black patent. The second time I used 6 oz. both times I have had this burnt tire taste. When I use less than 1/4 oz, I don't have this problem.

Everyones input is welcome, as I am totally stumped. I mean, like outlandish guesses, bold accusations, insults, and even informative advice. The recipes:

Graduation Stout
.5lb Paul's Black Pat. Malt
.5lb Paul's Roasted Barley
.75lb Briess Crystal 120
4lb Muntons amber DME
1lb Corn Sugar
.5t Irish moss
1oz Northern brewer hops (90 min boil)
1vial White Labs Edinburgh Ale Yeast

Thankfully, I didn't take this to my friends graduation. Most people said that they didn't like it because of the strange aftertaste. I said, 'you mean the burnt oak taste?' I was wishing that it would age out. I was totally wrong. The grains were seeped in a grain bag, pre 170 degrees.

Export Stout
4lb can Montmellick stout kit
4lb Muntons DME amber
.5lb Briess Crystal 40
.75lb Muntons roasted barley
6oz Paul's black patent
1.75E. Kent Goldings (60min boil)
.25 East Kent Goldings (15min boil)
1t Irish moss
used safale red pack for yeast on this one.

Seeped grains, same as above. This beer is taking forever to age. Still has a green apple taste. However, I tasted the dreaded burnt tire! What is going on here?

I read somewhere that improper roasting of malt can cause a smoky flavor. Is this true? Who here has also had the same experience? Is it time for me to switch malting companies? Have I over done it with the black patent?:confused:


Another possible answer to this problem is Phenolic, in brew chem 101 it says Use proper sparging techniques, Especially temperature,pH,and Amount of Sparge water ALSO to establish and maintain sterile brewing techniques to avoid contamination by wild yeast. Discard Plastic fermentation vessels if cuts or scratches are evident. The above is how to avoid Medicinal,plastic,electrical fire,antiseptic mouthwash,adhesive bandage,smokey,or clove like off flavors and aromas.

So i am going to wager a guess here and say that your problem was soaking the grains at 170 degrees, what i would do, is make another batch Exactly like the ones above making only one change, soak the grains at between 135 and 155 and see if the flavor is present, IF you have no scratches in your fermentation vessel And if you do i would replace it, and Lower the temp to the above stated. Let us know if this fixes it!