Unmalted Wheat?

[texasliam]

Question from an extract brewer
I'm looking to make a cloudy wheat beer.
If I steep unmalted wheat with:

wheat malt grain
six-row pale malt
cara-pils malt

Will the starches in the unmalted wheat be converted to sugars?
If so, how can I avoid this.

5 lbs. wheat malt extract
½ lb. unmalted wheat grain
1/2 lb. wheat malt grain
1/2 lb. six-row pale malt
1/4 lb. cara-pils malt
1 oz. Hallertauer hops (bittering 60 minutes of boil))
½ oz. saaz hops (flavoring 15 minutes)
3/4 oz. dried bitter orange peel
WLP300



Thanks
Liam

[markaberrant]

Originally posted by texasliam
Question from an extract brewer
I'm looking to make a cloudy wheat beer.
If I steep unmalted wheat with:

wheat malt grain
six-row pale malt
cara-pils malt

Will the starches in the unmalted wheat be converted to sugars?
If so, how can I avoid this.

5 lbs. wheat malt extract
½ lb. unmalted wheat grain
1/2 lb. wheat malt grain
1/2 lb. six-row pale malt
1/4 lb. cara-pils malt
1 oz. Hallertauer hops (bittering 60 minutes of boil))
½ oz. saaz hops (flavoring 15 minutes)
3/4 oz. dried bitter orange peel
WLP300


Unmalted wheat is not a requirement for a cloudy wheat beer.

Unmalted wheat is traditionally used in a Belgian wheat (though many brewers now go with malted wheat), all other wheat beers use malted wheat. You are using a German Wheat Yeast and half of the spices for a Belgian, so I'm not sure what you are going for.

I really wouldn't bother steeping any grains for an extract wheat, you won't miss it, trust me. What makes a wheat beer great is it's simplicity. Leave it in primary until fermentation is complete (I usually let mine sit for 10 days, 14 max), and then bottle. This will give you a cloudy, tasty wheat, and if it ain't cloudy enough, stir the yeast back in (definitely recommended for a German wheat).

I would also encourage you to add some coriander if you plan on adding bitter orange peel. Coriander is what provides the citrus flavour, not the peel.

[markaberrant]

In answer to your original question: Yes, there would be enough enzymes to convert all the starches. The cara-pils is completely unnecessary in a wheat beer, the protein in the wheat provides tons of body and head retention.

If you are hell bent on using unmalted wheat, use at least 1lb or you won't even notice it. Use an equal amount of 2 or 6-row, and steep for 30 minutes around 150-155F.

[texasliam]

Originally posted by markaberrant

I would also encourage you to add some coriander if you plan on adding bitter orange peel. Coriander is what provides the citrus flavour, not the peel.

No kidding,,, thanks for the tip on coriander. I was imagining Indian food taste.

I've never tasted the clove/bannana thing in German, and that's why I was headed there with that yeast. A Belgian yeast would not have the same taste, correct?

Liam

[markaberrant]

Originally posted by texasliam
No kidding,,, thanks for the tip on coriander. I was imagining Indian food taste.

I've never tasted the clove/bannana thing in German, and that's why I was headed there with that yeast. A Belgian yeast would not have the same taste, correct?

Liam

A belgian wheat yeast is phenolic (spicy) and tart (fruity). Very good, but also very different from a german wheat yeast.

If you want to see what the banana/clove flavour is all about, I wouldn't bother adding spices. But it's up to you what you want to make, there is no right and wrong with brewing.

[Mill Rat]

As previously noted, starch into the wort is not needed to get that wheat beer haze, and it will cause the beer to age prematurely, among other side-effects. The proteins from converted wheat and the weizen yeast will give you all the cloudiness you'll want. So I'd recommend that after the half-hour steep (read mini-mash), you perform an iodine test to ensure you have converted all the starch. Do a search on "iodine" and you find some threads here describing the test. It's simple, just make sure the iodine you test with doesn't get into you or your wort.

My other advice is that if you are using WLP 300, be prepared for a stunningly vigorous fermentation. This yeast goes apes--t even if you mistreat it.

[corkybstewart]

Originally posted by Mill Rat

My other advice is that if you are using WLP 300, be prepared for a stunningly vigorous fermentation. This yeast goes apes--t even if you mistreat it.

In other words start off with a blow off hose, not an airlock or you'll be cleaning up the mess for days. And don't do like I did. I had to direct my wife by phone on how to make a blow off hose and put it in the stopper where the airlock used to be. Make it in advance and use it. There are lots of threads on how to make and use them.

[texasliam]

Lots of great info there. Thanks everyone for the education.
So how about this revised plan

5 lbs. wheat malt extract
1 lb. malted wheat grain, steep
3/4 oz. coriander seeds (crush & add during last 5 minutes of boil)
3/4 oz. dried bitter orange peel (add during last 5 minutes of boil)
2/3 oz. Saaz hops (bittering)
1/2 oz. Cascades hops (flavoring)
no finishing hops
WLP400 Belgian Wit Ale Yeast

Liam

[markaberrant]

Originally posted by texasliam
Lots of great info there. Thanks everyone for the education.
So how about this revised plan

5 lbs. wheat malt extract
1 lb. malted wheat grain, steep
3/4 oz. coriander seeds (crush & add during last 5 minutes of boil)
3/4 oz. dried bitter orange peel (add during last 5 minutes of boil)
2/3 oz. Saaz hops (bittering)
1/2 oz. Cascades hops (flavoring)
no finishing hops
WLP400 Belgian Wit Ale Yeast

Liam

Looks tasty! The Cascades are not traditional, but should add an interesting character.

[BREWERDLUX]

I add a tablespoon of all-purpose flour in the last 10 mins of the boil on my wheat beers (hefe and wit). Leaves the beer forever cloudy. I have found that after awhile in the keg under refridge conditions, the yeast settles and you end up with kristal weizen instead. I have been using the flour and the cloud remains till the keg is empty.

[corkybstewart]

But if i did that my wife wouldn't want to share it with me, she hates cloudy beer. Hey, wait a minute.....