Oktoberfest

[n0rmann]

I just wrote an article reviewing Oktoberfest beers, and I quote my grandmother.

http://www.metrowestdailynews.com/foodDining/view.bg?articleid=140236

[Jeff]

Uh-oh, beware the rath of Steve for disliking Spaten!:eek:

That was a really nice article and its cool that you sampled the beer with your grandmother. You made my mouth water with the description of the Brooklyn Oktoberfest, wish I could get that around here.

[chazwicke]

How did your Mum Mum like the real Oktoberfest that she attended? I'm certain the Spaten was one of the beers that she sampled there although genuine Munich Oktoberfest beers have changed over the years. Last year, of the draft German Oktoberfest beers that I sampled, I liked the Paulaner the best. Followed by the always tasty Spaten.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Jeff
Uh-oh, beware the rath of Steve for disliking Spaten!

Of the three I've had the opportunity to sample this year, it's still my favorite.

1. Spaten
2. Paulaner
3. Sam Adams

Have a 4 pack of Sprecher in the wings and hope to sample some Capital this weekend.

BTW, I didn't taste any caramel in my Sam Adams (on tap and in bottle), but there was a nice nuttiness to it.

Caramel isn't a good characteristic for Oktoberfest Marzen style brews, but many people mistaken the malt melanoidin character for caramel - though melanoidin is far less sweet. Spaten is loaded with melanoidin, Paulaner too - though Paulaner has some odd, sharp hoppiness going on this year.

Roastiness is wrong for Oktoberfests too, there should be a good toastiness - breadiness, biscuit flavor, but roasty should be reserved for stouts and porters.

S.

[hooky]

The Paulaner I had last weekend had hardly any mouthfeel and was kind of tasteless.

I've got some Spaten I've been sipping on this week and it's been tasty. I had a Sam and a Warsteiner too. Hands down winner was the Weihenstephaner on tap at the Rathskeller.

Weihenstephaner
Spaten
Sam
Paulaner
Warsteiner

[chazwicke]

Steve, Have you had your top 3 on draft this year? I've had none yet.

[MeridianFC]

I'm holding out for draght. Temperance is going to have Victory Fest, maybe as early as this week. Reef is going to have Paulaner, Hofbrau, and three others t/b/a. I'm sure I'll locate some Dominion.

[steveh]

Originally posted by hooky
The Paulaner I had last weekend had hardly any mouthfeel and was kind of tasteless.

Double-check the bottling dates - there's been a lot of talk over at BA about old stock being sold.

I've got some Spaten I've been sipping on this week and it's been tasty. I had a Sam and a Warsteiner too. Hands down winner was the Weihenstephaner on tap at the Rathskeller.

Can't say I've ever seen Weihenstephan Okto.

Weihenstephaner
Spaten
Sam
Paulaner
Warsteiner

Warsteiner? Okto? Bleah.

Still haven't seen Goose Island Okto.

Chaz - I've only had the Sam on tap so far this year - it seems to be everywhere, just be sure it's not too cold.

S.

[MikShau]

Good reviews for SA's Okto!??!

Makes that $2 happy hour price all the better. Is it 4 o'clock yet?

[hooky]

Originally posted by steveh

Can't say I've ever seen Weihenstephan Okto.



It's not labeled as an Okto, but as a Festbier. I may be confusing the matter, but I took it to be a Marzen/Okto. That's sure what it looked and tasted like and it was labeled a seasonal.

I had a couple of SA Okto's today with a client at lunch. It's growing on me.

[n0rmann]

My grandmother said she liked Oktoberfest, of what she could remember of it. I have a feeling she could put it away when she was younger. She still drinks two beers a day, every day, seven days a week.

[steveh]

Originally posted by hooky
It's not labeled as an Okto, but as a Festbier.

So, is it golden in color as a Helles? It's probably the same as the beer being served at the Fest these days (same as Augustiner and Hofbrau).

S.

[hooky]

Originally posted by steveh
So, is it golden in color as a Helles? It's probably the same as the beer being served at the Fest these days (same as Augustiner and Hofbrau).

S.

It was a mohagany color with a nice rich malty taste. Kind of looked like and had the mouthfeel of a dunkelweiss without the haze.

[threecb]

Just came back from a local Okto promo featuring Hacker-Pschorr (Free Mug - Yay!). The first pour was from a "barrel" (which looked fake) and it was a Helles. I wondered if this is what HP was doing this year instead of Marzen. Then I had one off the tap and it was a very nice Marzen-style O-fest. It was much better.

My wife's first comment, though, was that it was heavy in caramel flavor. It might've been because it was too cold, because I thought that the melanoidin characteristics were coming through beautifully and enjoyed it very much. It was definitely better than the Brooklyn O-fest that I had the week before, but that was no slouch either.

Last weekend I went to Ramstein's (High Point Brewing) open house and his was beautiful, but a bit too hoppy for the style. Malt notes were spot on. The only other 2 "Ofests" I tried were 2 ales. A local brewpub and Weyerbacher. I was pretty impressed that both of them had great Oktoberfest qualities coming through without the ale yeast overpowering the subtleness of the style.

Can't wait to hit up a few more this weekend. I need to get some Spaten and Paulaner ASAP!

Damn, I love the fall Oktoberfest season!

(and thanks steveh, for the tasting we did a while back that helped me understand the whole melanoidin thing!)

[Mill Rat]

Warsteiner Oktoberfest is on tap at Ballydoyle Irish Pub in downtown Downers Grove (across the street from Emmett's). My wife had a couple of these while I had a Hoegaarten and a Belhaven. I sampled hers (and she tried mine in revenge) and my impression was they were a bit maltier and had a little more melanoidin flavor than regular Warsteiner, but I suppose that's not saying a whole lot. A bit better than the usual Deutschmacrobieren, but not up to the Spaten/Paulaner standard, either

[TrojanAnteater]

Does Beck's Oktoberfest come anywhere close to being good? I just am skeptical about shelling out $8 for it when the pennies need to be pinched as a in-debt college student. And what do you guys think of Hofbrau?

[steveh]

Originally posted by TrojanAnteater
Does Beck's Oktoberfest come anywhere close to being good? And what do you guys think of Hofbrau?

IMO Beck's regular export is better than their "Oktoberfest" (quotes, because Beck's has only recently started brewing an Okto to jump on the party wagon - Oktoberfest isn't tradition in N. Germany).

The Hofbrau Okto is the lighter colored, slightly lighter bodied Festbier now being served at the Munich fest grounds. It's good, but I enjoy a traditional Marzen-style Okto better. Look for .5l bottles of the Hofbrau Maibock, it's tasty stuff and there may be some left on the shelves - it ages well.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by hooky
It was a mohagany color with a nice rich malty taste. Kind of looked like and had the mouthfeel of a dunkelweiss without the haze.

Hmm, interesting - sounds like a true Marzen style. They're probably using Festbier in the traditional manner, refusing to cave to the changing mores - more power to 'em.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by threecb
(and thanks steveh, for the tasting we did a while back that helped me understand the whole melanoidin thing!)

A true pleasure when talking about good beer!

AFA distinguishing flavors between caramel and melanoidin, sample a glass of ESB (Fullers, Red Hook) alongside a Spaten Oktoberfest. You'll really see the difference in the sweet caramel/toffee character of the ESB and be able to discern the difference in the rich, bready melanoidin character in the Okto.

S.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by TrojanAnteater
Does Beck's Oktoberfest come anywhere close to being good? I just am skeptical about shelling out $8 for it when the pennies need to be pinched as a in-debt college student. And what do you guys think of Hofbrau?

Becks sponsors a cheesy Oktoberfest at the Ocean City Convention Center near my beach place. I went last year not knowing it was Becks. It was nothing really more than some oompa music, cafeteria style German food and a craft show. They had a Becks beer truck IIRC. I did not taste any since I'm not all that fond of Becks. Maybe I should have. I saw an ad in one of the OC papers that the event is going on again one weekend this fall.

I also once went to a Greek festival there too. Same thing. Greek music and food (which I normally like) and a stupid craft show. :rolleyes:

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Becks sponsors a cheesy Oktoberfest at the Ocean City Convention Center near my beach place. I went last year not knowing it was Becks. It was nothing really more than some oompa music, cafeteria style German food and a craft show. They had a Becks beer truck IIRC. I did not taste any since I'm not all that fond of Becks. Maybe I should have. I saw an ad in one of the OC papers that the event is going on again one weekend this fall.

I also once went to a Greek festival there too. Same thing. Greek music and food (which I normally like) and a stupid craft show. :rolleyes:

HA! Sounds eerily like the Ofest I went to at Mount Snow in Vermont. Lame. Otter Creek, Harpoon, Warsteiner and....Bud Light were served. $6/beer!!! In Vermont! Overpriced food - $10 brats anyone? I think I spent more $$ at the craft show than at the lame fest.

[chazwicke]

It was my wife who spent at the lame craft show. :rolleyes:


(At the Greekfest I did buy a couple CDs of Greek music.)

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by steveh
IMO Beck's regular export is better than their "Oktoberfest" (quotes, because Beck's has only recently started brewing an Okto to jump on the party wagon - Oktoberfest isn't tradition in N. Germany).


What he said.

[steveh]

Originally posted by newportstorm
$10 brats anyone?

That's just wrong.

S.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by steveh
That's just wrong.

S.

Had it come with potato salad, slaw, kraut, etc. I'd have been OK with it. One brat on a bun? Washed it down with a $6 Warsteiner Dunkel and left to watch the UM-PSU game. Worst $200 I ever spent.

Prost!

[HarkJohnny]

i've been slacking a bit too. Only had a 6er of Spaten (my second last year), a 6er of SA (too hoppy this year) and some Warsteiner on draft (not bad but not my fav by any means)

hoping to pick up some more in the coming weeks along with a small keg of something

[steveh]

Originally posted by HarkJohnny
a 6er of SA (too hoppy this year)

Huh? You think so? I've had a few drafts and a sixer, didn't find it at all hoppy (in comparison to an Okto, that is).

Don't try the Paulaner...

S.

[n0rmann]

I haven't had the Paulaner, but someone told me they thought that was the best of the bunch this year.

[chazwicke]

It was last year. With Spaten right behind. I'm really thirsty for some Oktoberfest brew now. I might have to stop on the way home. ;)

[steveh]

Originally posted by n0rmann
I haven't had the Paulaner, but someone told me they thought that was the best of the bunch this year.

The Paulaner I tried this year (.5l bottle, bottled date of 06.06) had an odd hop sharpness to it. Although it was still tasty, I'm partial to the Spaten - especially this year.

S.

[n0rmann]

I have no Oktoberfest beers at home right now. I was in Philly and Baltimore last week, so I finished them before I left. I have one Peak Organic Brown and one Lagunitas High Gravity Cream Ale at home. Pathetic.

[chazwicke]

What brewers in Baltimore did you visit? Philly?

[n0rmann]

In Baltimore, I went to both Wharf Rats, Capital City Brewing, Brewer's Art and the Rocky Run Grill and Tap, as well as a few other bars like Max's on Broadway.

In Philly, I went to Nodding Head, Manayunk, Independence Brewing and a couple of other places such as Monks.

[chazwicke]

I'd call that a successful trip. The Wharf Rat does a fine job with cask ales.

Which breweries were your faves?

[n0rmann]

I liked the Wharf Rat slighlty more than Brewer's Art in Baltimore, but I only tried one beer at Brewer's Art because of time (I was going to a game). I preferred the Fell's Point Wharf Rat better than the Camden Yards one, just because of the crowd. In Philly, I liked Nodding Head. Monks was my favorite bar of all, although Hooter's in Baltimore had a certain appeal that had nothing to do with beer, although they did have Sam Adam's Oktoberfest.

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by steveh
Of the three I've had the opportunity to sample this year, it's still my favorite.

1. Spaten
2. Paulaner
3. Sam Adams

Have a 4 pack of Sprecher in the wings and hope to sample some Capital this weekend.

BTW, I didn't taste any caramel in my Sam Adams (on tap and in bottle), but there was a nice nuttiness to it.

Caramel isn't a good characteristic for Oktoberfest Marzen style brews, but many people mistaken the malt melanoidin character for caramel - though melanoidin is far less sweet. Spaten is loaded with melanoidin, Paulaner too - though Paulaner has some odd, sharp hoppiness going on this year.

Roastiness is wrong for Oktoberfests too, there should be a good toastiness - breadiness, biscuit flavor, but roasty should be reserved for stouts and porters.

S.


I've had Victory, Lakefront, and Tyranena so far this year; unfortunately at big enough intervals not to be able to really rank them. Suffice it to say I enjoyed all three. :D

We are trying desperately trying to get a half barrel of Bell's O'fest for our annual family 'fest; apparently, it's only available in kegs.

[steveh]

Originally posted by BluesHarp
I've had Victory, Lakefront, and Tyranena so far this year; unfortunately at big enough intervals not to be able to really rank them. Suffice it to say I enjoyed all three.

Got to try the Lakefront & Tyranena at the Great Lakes Brew Fest on Saturday, very good. Also had Paulaner and H-P Oktos side-by-side. H-P is a bit sweeter, Paulanera bit hoppier...still like Spaten better.

Victory didn't have the Okto, but I had their Prima Pils - after having just finished judging IPAs and IIPAs, it was nice to have a smooth lager with the right amount of Saaz hops!

S.

[studentofbeer]

just capped a few (ok 3... not something i would normally do but my hofbrauhaus mass looks so empty with only one or two beers in it) spaten oktoberfests last night... mmmm that was good. definitely sweet and toasty, rich and full of flavor but not heavy or filling.

i know where people are coming from when they say caramel but as steveh says, it's not as sweet or candied as true caramel flavor (which i've tasted in beers with too much diacetyl). it was a very well-balanced beer and still tasted quite fresh. very nice companion to the grass-fed porterhouse i made last night.

[TrojanAnteater]

Originally posted by steveh
Got to try the Lakefront & Tyranena at the Great Lakes Brew Fest on Saturday, very good. Also had Paulaner and H-P Oktos side-by-side. H-P is a bit sweeter, Paulanera bit hoppier...still like Spaten better.

Victory didn't have the Okto, but I had their Prima Pils - after having just finished judging IPAs and IIPAs, it was nice to have a smooth lager with the right amount of Saaz hops!

S.

Heh, if you read the reviews for Paulaner on BA, you wont find one that describes it without using the word caramel. Interesting tidbit about the melanoidins that it looks like almost nobody knows.

[steveh]

Originally posted by TrojanAnteater
Interesting tidbit about the melanoidins that it looks like almost nobody knows.

They need to read more when they sample. Even the Alstrom Bros' description doesn't use caramal as a character.

From the BJCP on Oktoberfest/Marzen:
"Initial malty sweetness, but finish is moderately dry. Distinctive and complex maltiness often includes a toasted aspect. Hop bitterness is moderate, and noble hop flavor is low to none. Balance is toward malt, though the finish is not sweet. Noticeable caramel or roasted flavors are inappropriate. Clean lager character with no diacetyl or fruity esters."

S.

[MeridianFC]

It's always struck me that the sweetness is very honey like. Perfumy. Delicious. Soul intoxicating on strings of light that transport you to the hills and directly to heaven.....er.............um..............sorry I got carried away with myself. I'm a way for a lie down.

:D

[steveh]

Got to try some Goose Okto from the bottle tonight - same as it ever was (uh, wait) -- roasted and estery. A good drink, but more of a Brown Ale than an Oktoberfest.

Why oh why can't they make a good Okto? I love that we have a local world-class brewery - I sure wish they could brew my favorite style, to style!

S.

Meridian, perfumy?

[corysdad]

Why oh why can't they make a good Okto? I love that we have a local world-class brewery - I sure wish they could brew my favorite style, to style!

S.

I'm with you there Steve. Most Okto's that I've tried that are from U.S. brewers are not near as good as Bavarian imports. On that note wondering if you have tried Ayinger's Okto?. A little different than the Spatan but very nice.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by steveh


Meridian, perfumy?

Most Bavarian beers have a very noticable and wonderful specific malt aroma, thus perfumy. Good English aside, I think it's true. Besides you're never to question me when I'm channeling my muse. Now I've got to get back to working on "Ode to a German Krug".

:D

[steveh]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
Besides you're never to question me when I'm channeling my muse.

Heh, heh, heh. Okay, but when you change channels, I think more of fruit esters (a la a good IPA or ESB) when I think perfumy. When I wiff a good Bavarain Okto, I think nutty - perhaps even earthy (but not as earthy as a Fullers 1845).

Corys - I tried the Ayinger Okto last year and was disappointed. Not sure if I got old stock, or what. But it was slightly tart, pale in color and very cloudy. On the other hand, I love the Ayinger Jahrhunnert - which is also pale and cloudy, but more malty than tart.

S.

[studentofbeer]

Originally posted by steveh
Got to try some Goose Okto from the bottle tonight - same as it ever was (uh, wait) -- roasted and estery. A good drink, but more of a Brown Ale than an Oktoberfest.

Why oh why can't they make a good Okto? I love that we have a local world-class brewery - I sure wish they could brew my favorite style, to style!

S.



agreed, never could get much into goose's o-fest beer, mostly because it's really not much like an oktoberfest at all. they don't even seem to try.

[Sladek]

Is Capital's Oktoberfest out yet? Any of you Twin Cities people know if it's available anywhere? I'll have to look for Sprecher, but probably won't be here. I guess I'll look in the German aisle.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Sladek
Is Capital's Oktoberfest out yet?

Yes, had it last weekend at the Great Lakes Brew Fest. Also seen it on shelves in Northern Ill, must be around the Twins somewhere.

Sprecher is tasty this year, find it!

S.

[Jake]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by steveh
[B]



Warsteiner? Okto? Bleah.


Add Leinenkugel's Okto to the Bleah list.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Jake
Add Leinenkugel's Okto to the Bleah list.

Historically so, I'm afraid.

S.

[Jake]

So far I have only been able to get Samuel Adams Okto. I'm not complaining though because I think SA is outstanding. I'm hoping to be able to get Paulaner Okto when I go to Traverse City October 6th.

[BluesHarp]

Originally posted by steveh
From the BJCP on Oktoberfest/Marzen:
"Initial malty sweetness, but finish is moderately dry. Distinctive and complex maltiness often includes a toasted aspect. Hop bitterness is moderate, and noble hop flavor is low to none. Balance is toward malt, though the finish is not sweet. Noticeable caramel or roasted flavors are inappropriate. Clean lager character with no diacetyl or fruity esters."

S.

Unfortunately, if you look at ratings (using the term loosely) on most Beer sites that Rate beer, you see most of the top rated 'fest beers referred to as caramely or roasty...and of course, an ABV over 8% never hurts, either...:rolleyes:

[jsmurphy]

I just picked up some Paulaner O'Fest with a "produced on" date of 03/06. It's good.

The label is odd though. Written underneath Octoberfest Marzen it says Amber. Isn't their O'Fest always amber, or do they make a Helles version too? Maybe an American thing?

Even stranger, in the upper right corner it says ALE.

WTF???

[hooky]

You're describing the packaging on the Paulaner sixer I bought a few weeks ago and it tasted like a weak attempt at an Okto. I thought it tasted watery and thin. I didn't see the date on it. I'm still wondering if i got old product.

[Robo]

Currently enjoying Paulaner and Spaten. Both are available year 'round but I only drink them in September for Oktoberfest.

[jsmurphy]

Does anyone know why the label says ALE?:confused:

[Jeff]

The label probably says "Ale" to make it conform to some sort of blue law in a backwards state.

[steveh]

Originally posted by jsmurphy
Does anyone know why the label says ALE?:confused:

I think I replied to your post over at BA too, but - Jeff is right. There are states in the U.S. that refer to any beer stronger than 5.5 abv (or something near that percentage) as "ale," and therefore taxed differently. Even imported beers must comply by adding the moniker to the label. The imports print it on all labels so they don't have to single out the shipments to the separate states.

It has nothing to do with how the beer is brewed.

S.

[jsmurphy]

Thanks guys.

I assumed something like that after I saw the same thing on my Hacker-Pschorr Marzen too.

Some places use the term "Malt Liquor" the same way.

[chazwicke]

And back in the 1960s and 70s Virginia prohibited the word "liquor" on beer so malt liquor became malt "lager". Lots has changed since those days.

[steveh]

Beer in Minnesota was often labeled "strong," but this only meant that the brewery had paid the proper taxes to the state in order to sell there. Back in the mid 80s I called the Huber Brewery to ask why their beer was "strong."

S.

[bluespiderweb]

Originally posted by threecb
...Last weekend I went to Ramstein's (High Point Brewing) open house and his was beautiful, but a bit too hoppy for the style. Malt notes were spot on. The only other 2 "Ofests" I tried were 2 ales. A local brewpub and Weyerbacher. I was pretty impressed that both of them had great Oktoberfest qualities coming through without the ale yeast overpowering the subtleness of the style.

Can't wait to hit up a few more this weekend. I need to get some Spaten and Paulaner ASAP!

Damn, I love the fall Oktoberfest season!

I just picked up a bottle Weyerbacher Autumn Fest, and I agree with threecb, it's an excellent brew, and very similar (to me) of my preferred Ofest this year, Paulaner. I did drink it a little colder than I usually like to drink Ofests, and I had only one. Maybe I'll have to do something about that!

Link to Weyerbacher's profile page of their Autumn Fest beer:

http://weyerbacher.com/cwo/Beers/index.php?id=7&page_id=7

And, your last statement, threecb, are my sentiments exactly!