First Timer questions

[sweetkness]

Hi Everyone,
I am brand new to the homebrewing experience, new to this forum, and this is my first post. I have been reading some of the posts and this sounds like a great place to get advice from other brewersI had some basic starting questions, I will get to others as I go along.

First things first, I got most of my info from the book I bought, "Homebrewing for Dummies", so I was basically gonna base my first batch on the info from Marty Nachel. Anyone else out there have experience with this book?

My plan was to buy the equipment I need "alacarte" so I could get exactly what I wanted instead of going with a starter kit. Is this a good idea for a beginner, or would the kit be recommended?? I also planned on going getting a glass carboy to do a secondary fermentation on my first batch. Is that getting a little too advanced for my first batch??

I have read some different advice about going with a primary fermenter that contains a spigot, the book recommends it, I also noticed "corkybstewart" saying he uses one in all of his brewing. If I go this route, does anyone know where I can purchase a relatively cheap fermenter that contains a spigot, I couldn't find one through the retail links on this site. This is already getting a bit long so I will save other questions for a future time. Thanks

[hooky]

Welcome to the board. You'll get a lot of good info from the folks here.

I'll answer a couple of your questions as a relatively new homebrewer myself and then the real advice will sound even better. .:D

Get the carboy for a secondary. It's not complicated and you'll get better beer.

I bought a kit that included a 6.5 Gallon Fermenter Bucket with lid, 6.5 Gallon Bottling Bucket with Spigot, 5 Gallon Glass Carboy, The "Home Beermaking" Book, Easy Clean No-Rinse Sanitizer, Twin Lever Bottle Capper, Triple Scale Hydrometer, Airlock, Drilled Universal Carboy Bung, Siphon Hose with Shut-Off Clamp, Fermtech Auto Siphon, Bottle Filler, Bottle Brush, Equipment Instructions. I paid $70. !Link to the kit (http://www.greatfermentations.com/prodinfo.asp?number=1002&variation=&aitem=2&mitem=4)


I've never fermented in the bottling bucket, though. I'd be leery of it leaking.

I bought Papazian's book The Complete Joy of Homebrewing and often refer to Palmer's website How to Brew (http://www.howtobrew.com/)

Good luck

[Otis_The_Drunk]

Don't use the bottling bucket in my opinion, there are too many places for bateria to hide.

Also like hooky said it may be prone to leak.
A starter kit if your a new brewer is the way to go, I would get one with a carboy though.
Most starter kits include a hydrometer and knowing your gravity gives you better control with your beer.

Later you can get more carboys and only use the bucket for bottling.
You may as well face it, with this hobby you always get more and more equipment. It's a never ending process.
Been doing it for 18 years and have started over about 3 times and still find things I want to buy.

[Halgarmeister]

IMHO, all the basic apparatus kits are the same, save a couple of items.

What you need:

6 - 6.5 gallon bucket with lid and spigot
6 - 6.5 gallon glass carboy
+ or - 6 feet of food grade vinyl tubing that will attach to the spigot and racking cane
racking cane that will reach the bottom of your carboy
thermometer
Hydrometer
airstop and bung for the carboy
cleaning brush for the carboy
sanitizer
wort chiller - the chillers don't come with the initial kits, but trust me and everyone else when we say that it really is a necessity.
Brewing manual. My kit came with Papazians "joy of home brewing", now they come with a "brew magazine".

IMHO, other necessities are:

Hydrometer adjustment chart - hydrometers are calibrated at 60 degrees, if your wort is above or below that, you need to make a calculated adjustment to know what your readings truly are.
IBU calculator - this is what will tell you the bitterness of the finished beer, and how to craft it to your tastes. It's a simple calculation, just be sure that the book you have has it in it. I think Papazian includes the formula in either his second or third edition.

Depending on how you intend to bottle your beer, you might need a capper, racking cane (lisghtly different than the siphoning cane ), and bottles of your choice.

[Spicoli]

Here is a good price range for kits. Brew Kits (http://morebeer.com/browse.html?category_id=1006&keyword=&x=1&y=1)

[corkybstewart]

Here we go again. I don't even remember when I started brewing(especially since I've had 3 of Boerne's homebrews while I clean the garage)but since about 1995 I've used fermenting buckets with spigots and I've never had a contaminated batch. I don't think the contamination risk is any worse with a spigot than with a siphon. Take the spigot apart and soak it in PBW after using it, then soak it in yopur choice of sanitizers before you use it again and it'll be OK. Spigots are great for checking your brew's progress, and is no worse than using a thief to get a sample for the hydrometer. BTW after you take a sample from the spigot be sure and spray some cleaner into the spigot, and befgore you rack to secondary make sure you've sanitized the interior of outlet tube of the spigot.

As for the a la carte idea, price it out and see which is best, but I bet it'll be the kit. morebeer.com has great starter kits with free shipping.
Start simple, sanitation is the key, patience is a must, then when you're hooked the sky's the limit.
When I said I was cleaning the garage I sort of lied. I've really spent the last 6 hours in my beer room cleaning it.

[wortchillergoal]

I would like to first say welcome to out community of beer lovers. This is one great place to talk and learn of beer.

Second. I want to second the idea that you spend money for the wortchiller. I believe that the glass carboy is a good idea as well.

You will find this to be a geat hobby and once started. it is very hard to turn back.

[corkybstewart]

And I should have also welcomed you to the board. As I often say, this a a very friendly, helpful group, and though we may disagree on certain things we generally agree to disagree.
Even as a longtime brewer I learn something here everyday, and if somebody doesn't ask a question nobody learns so ask away. And feel free to call me corky.

[sweetkness]

Thanks Hooky, Corky, Wortchiller, and everyone else that has replied thus far. I plan to go with a kit now that I see some of the options you guys helped show me.

I have a couple more questions I figured I would post here instead of starting a new thread. I went to the local liquor store and bought enough 12 oz. returnables for 5 gallons, it was nice and cheap. Aside from the sanitizing, is there anything else I need to be aware of with these? One thing I was wondering was....whats the best way to dry the bottles after sanitizing and rinsing so that they won't get contaminated??? Also, are bottle caps universal to fit any bottle no matter the size???

One more quick question....the book i got, (homebrewing for dummies) didn't mention straining/filtering out the leftovers (hops, etc.) after primary fermentation, it talked about using a bag for ingredients during the secondary fermenting, but not the primary. Is it necessary after the primarty???

Again, thanks for all the replies so far, I can tell this forum is gonna be a great help in launching this hobby.

[SoxyinMO]

Originally posted by sweetkness
Thanks Hooky, Corky, Wortchiller, and everyone else that has replied thus far. I plan to go with a kit now that I see some of the options you guys helped show me.

I have a couple more questions I figured I would post here instead of starting a new thread. I went to the local liquor store and bought enough 12 oz. returnables for 5 gallons, it was nice and cheap. Aside from the sanitizing, is there anything else I need to be aware of with these? One thing I was wondering was....whats the best way to dry the bottles after sanitizing and rinsing so that they won't get contaminated??? Also, are bottle caps universal to fit any bottle no matter the size???

One more quick question....the book i got, (homebrewing for dummies) didn't mention straining/filtering out the leftovers (hops, etc.) after primary fermentation, it talked about using a bag for ingredients during the secondary fermenting, but not the primary. Is it necessary after the primarty???

Again, thanks for all the replies so far, I can tell this forum is gonna be a great help in launching this hobby.

Hey sweetknees, let me add my welcome! Most sanitizers you don't rinse at all and, in fact, rinsing will lessen the efficacy of the sanitizer so make sure you read the instructions! If you check out this page, about halfway down you'll see a bottle tree. :

http://www.homebrewery.com/beer/beer-bottling.shtml

You soak your bottles in the sanitizer for the recommended amount of time, drain them, and then hang them on the rack. Do this just before you bottle, not a day ahead or anything.

Most 12 oz bottles (and every 22 oz bomber I've used) all use the plain ol' "bottle caps" you find at any LHBS.

If you use a siphon to rack your beer to a secondary, most of the leftovers will stay in your primary container especially if you are very careful at the initial pump of the siphon; if you use a bucket with a spigot for the primary, you'll find that much of the leftovers will stay as they settle below the spigot, I believe, though it's been a while since we used a bucket.

Good luck and keep us up-to-date on your brew!

[wortchillergoal]

I forgot to mention another way to spend money wisely for thid hobby. Get yourself an autoshipon. It makes lfe much easier. Using this device will help leave the trub, offical name for stuff at bottom of fermenter, in your fermenter.

Some people even swirl their beer in the brewpot and siphon from the side of the pot. The swirl pulls all the hot break and other bits of matter into a pile in the center of the pot.

Look, other than sanitation, it is hard to mess up a beer. Just brew it and you will see.

[Mill Rat]

Bottle caps are pretty universal. They'll even fit champagne bottles. Check the tops of your bottles. Some have a longer "skirt" below the capping rim than others. If you have ones with short skirts, you'll need a bench capper rather than one of the two-handled cappers. I find the bench capper to be easier to use anyway. Also, stay away from twist-off bottles. The caps we use will not seal correctly on them. Check the sanitation section here under homebrewing for lots of discussion on bottle cleaning.

[brazilhead]

Sweetkness, let me also begin by saying WELCOME.

If anyone else is reading this wondering about the kit/individual equipment question, I´d say it is quite doable to start very simply with very little equipment and buy more as you go. As you´ll almost certainly do an all-extract the first time, you can get by with a relatively small pot, a primary-only fermentation, no hydrometer, etc. You´ll certainly want all this stuff very soon but I echo WortChillerGoal in that it´s somewhat hard not to make good beer even your first time if you respect the sanitation gods.

[sweetkness]

Again, thanks for the replies guy.

Just a little update, I went with a kit from the website that was offered to me, morebeer.com. I went with the deluxe starting kit for 99.99. The only extras I got were a 5 gal. brewpot, a bottle tree/rack, and a plastic bucket ferementer with a spigot, lid and stopper because I'm gonna do the primary in there and do a secondary in the glass carboy. If there is anything important that someone notices I am missing, please let me know. I decided to pass on the wort chiller for the moment to save a little cash.

I guess that leaves the ingredients to brew my first beer once I get the equipment. Again, i need more advice:eek: I've read that the kits that include everything are best for beginners. What are some suggestions for some top ingredient kits. Some of my favorite beers are IPA's, Stouts, and Hefe's. Are stouts too advanced to try on my first run?

[corkybstewart]

Stouts are a great first beer. They really aren't complicated and they're great for hiding minor flaws. Hefe's are also good first brews.

[Halgarmeister]

Originally posted by sweetkness
I decided to pass on the wort chiller for the moment to save a little cash.

A decision that you'll change with your very first batch. It takes forever to cool boiling wort down to 75-80 degree pitching temperature, and a boat load of ice. The more water you have to cool, the worse it is. One easier way around it is to boil half your water the day before, leave it covered to cool, then transfer it to the carboy or bucket when the temp will allow. That way you won't have the volume of boiling water to deal with. Still, the absolute easiest and fastest way to cool the wort is with a chiller.

It will be the best $25 you ever spend.

Also, I noticed you purchased a 5 gallon brew pot. Don't put a full 5 gallons of water in there and then think that there will be room for more ingredients. Liquid malt takes up a WHOLE bunch of room, approximately a gallon's worth, including expansion room for the hot water and remaining ingredients. The most you'll likely be able to boil is 3 to 3-1/2 gallons at a time.

[thekulman]

Hi Sweetknees;

Welcome;

I'll only append a couple points since the advice you've been given is quality;

1/ Unless you are boiling the entire volume of wort you don't (yet) need a wort chiller. You're first batches will likely be extract based where you boil 3 gallons in a 5 gallon pot and then add to cold water in your primary to make up the full volume. That chills it significantly.

2/ I put a SS strainer in the boiling wort for the last 10 minutes (to sanitize it) and then pour the wort through it. This removes most of the break material and hops.

3/ Before I had a wort chiller I used to put the lid on the pot, move it to a bathtub, run cold water into the tub and dump in 3 bags of ice. That cooled the 3 gallons down within 30 minutes.
and...

4/ If you are going with a kit that says to add corn sugar, don't. Replace the volume of corn sugar for extract (light dried malt extract pound for pound) and your beer will be much better.

p.s. - I use plastic buckets for primaries and carboyd's for secondaries and I've been at it 19 yrs. now. I do so for ease of use. Unless you don't have to move the primary, use plastic. Moving a filled glass carboyd is asking for trouble.
I used to use glass for primary and notice no difference in flavour.

My most successful "early" beer was the Cooper's Stout kit - very lucious!
Kul

[wortchillergoal]

Well, I don't see eye to eye with kulman about plastic, it is not wrong to use it. The problem with plastic is that it will scratch and give hiding places to those things that would containment your beer. It will also absorb odors which can be passed on to your beer.

For your plans, I think I would do my primary in the glass carboy and secondary in the bottling bucket. It would save racking the beer, moving beer from one vessel to another, a third time. Though you still could have some settled material that could find it'd way through the spigot and into the bottle doing it my way. No matter, which ever way you go, make sure you cover the carboy so light can't get to it. I just cut a hole in the bottom of the box for the airlock and put it on upside down over the carboy.

Have fun and remember

Beer can be food, but food can never be beer.

[thekulman]

Originally posted by wortchillergoal
Well, I don't see eye to eye with kulman about plastic, it is not wrong to use it. The problem with plastic is that it will scratch and give hiding places to those things that would containment your beer ... which ever way you go, make sure you cover the carboy so light can't get to it. I just cut a hole in the bottom of the box for the airlock and put it on upside down over the carboy.


I've often read that about plastic but my theory is that if I pour an iodophor and water solution in my primary (bucket), it gets into all those spaces that can harbour bacteria, so far ... no problems.
I brew outside on the patio but ferment in the basement. I used to use glass and carry it downstairs. After a couple of "scary" moments I now use the buckets because I find the handles make them earier to carry and I just "hover" them a couple inches off the ground during the journey so if it slipped, or the handle breaks there isn't far to fall.

Second the idea of keeping primary dark. When I used glass, I covered it with a dark garbage bag to filter out any light.

[HogieWan]

I just got a nice new PLASTIC conical. I was on the no-plastic side of the fence for a while - mainly for the o2 permeation reasons. After I realized how much o2 I possibly introduce with GOOD racking practises, I went for the cheaper stuff. I'm about to put my first batch in the conical this Sat. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[wortchillergoal]

I am glad you plastic guys are having those results. As I said, it was not wrong, for you guys. I at times am not a detail orientated person. Being a goalie, I bang and mark things up bad. It is easy for me to see were I missed in my cleaning on my glass carboys. Paying close attention to cleaning must extend the life of a plastic bucket greatly.

You gents help also prove my point that there are many right ways to do this hobby and very few wrong.

[thekulman]

Thanks Wortchiller;


Being Canadian, I know a thing or two about the idiosyncracies of goaltenders! Lol!
And that is NOT an insult, they're like drummers (of which I am) - part of the band, but a totally different category...

My first plastic fermentor I carefully and proudly (this is back in the '80's mind you) added 23 l of water and scratched the inside wall with a nail at that level to mark it! Awwwww!

I use that now to hold potatoes and carrots in sand after I pick them ...

But I just clean my primary with mild detergent and a wash cloth, or the sponge side of a kitchen sponge, not the scoury side. I figure there is no way it can get scratched.

[sweetkness]

Halgermeister, thanks for your reply. Where could I get a wort chiller for $25, and is one that price dependable. The ones I saw on morebeer.com were around $45.

I will check out the cooper's stout kit, thanks thekulman. Any other suggestions on ingredient kits?

I will definetly pay careful attention to cleaning the plastic fermenter. I thought the big bucket would be useful for my santizing, where i could soak the bucket with a bleach solution (or possibly another solution) then also soak most of my other materials in the bucket at the same time.

[corkybstewart]

Immersion chillers used to be cheap to build but with the cost of copper tubing today I don't know if $25 will be enough. Keep in mind that the more wort you boil, and the less cold water you top off with, the better your beer will be. Thus the need to cool a lot of wort quickly.
Do a search and you'll find instructions for building a cheap one.

[thekulman]

Originally posted by sweetkness
... I thought the big bucket would be useful for my santizing, where i could soak the bucket with a bleach solution (or possibly another solution) then also soak most of my other materials in the bucket at the same time.

I'd stay away from bleach. I use Iodophor, which is iodine based and no rinse, meaning a quick soak and then air dry or shake as much off as possible and use.

I used to use unsented bleach - because it's cheap, 2 oz per 5 gallons. It's hard to get that bleach smell out of your equipment though, you have to really rinse well in the hotest tap water you have. Personally, I also think it affects the taste of the beer ... but that's my opinion.

Iodophor is expensive because it has a "foaming" agent.
I'm going to try drugstore iodine, which is also cheap, and the sanitizing component in Iodophor.
Yes, it won't foam, but if hospitals use it in operating rooms to sterilize ... it's got to be good enough for brewing.

[wortchillergoal]

I go all the way with thekulman on this one. I have use bleach but there are plenty of good sanitizers that need no rinsing out there. A search of "saintizer" should get you info.

If you decide to go with bleach, rinse like crazy. after you think you have rinsed enough, do two or three more minutes.

[Halgarmeister]

Originally posted by sweetkness
Halgermeister, thanks for your reply. Where could I get a wort chiller for $25, and is one that price dependable. The ones I saw on morebeer.com were around $45.

$25 might be a tad light in my estimate. I recall seeing them both at the brew supply and online for about that a year or so ago when I decided I needed one. Ebay had a bunch for far less that were larger than the typical store bought ones. I also remember that I spent as much in parts to build mine as I would have spent to buy one, the only difference being that I designed mine to work at the kitchen sink, not outside at the hose.

Currently on ebay there are three, one is a chiller plate, two are copper coils, this is the better of the two.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WORT-CHILLER-HOMEBREW-BEER-KEG-COOLER_W0QQitemZ230022791249QQihZ013QQcategoryZ671 41QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[sweetkness]

Well from the looks of things, my kit that I ordered includes BTF (is that just the brand name?) Iodophor Sanitizer. Its 4 oz. worth, is that enough for 2 batches? I guess that will be good to see if I like it enough and whether or not I want to pay for more of it since you guys said its expensive.

If I can get a chiller for about $25 off of ebay I might go that route. If not I may look into making one myself.

I think I've made a bad choice of jumping into this hobby at the same time that I'm going back to school.....not to mention, planning an upcoming wedding :confused: Can't really give it my full attention....but I finally got my own house, and I just couldnt' wait any longer, maybe it will take me a bit longer to get my hands dirty, but oh well.

[syoung34]

I am on my second batch right now. For my first (Red Ale), I did a 2 gallon boil and topped of with a little more than 3 gallons of cold water from the fridge. This put the temp right at 72 degrees, so I pitched the yeast. It is now bottled and carbonated, and tastes very nice. I use a plastic primary and a carboy for secondary. Rack and bottle with an Auto-siphon.

I just did my 2nd batch (Weizenbock). This time I took the advice from people on this site and boiled 3.5 gallons. I thought I could cool with a gallon of ice and a gallon of cold water. Temp. was over 90 degrees and I was up until 3am cooling with an ice bath.
Definitly getting the wort chiller.

For bottles, I run them in the dishwasher without detergent. The hot water and drying cycle sanitize them perfectly. For everything else, I have been using the Star San no-rinse.

This is actually a great hobby for busy people. I have a demanding job and 2 kids under two years old. You can brew on a Saturday, rack the following Sat, bottle one or two Sat. after that. Most of the time spent is fermenting/aging and drinking. When you get more time, you can do more research and experimentation.