Mini Mash vs. Steeping?

[kinjar]

Here's a simple question from a simple mind?

What's the difference between just steeping grains and doing a "mini mash"?

I know there are only a set of malts that can be steeped. Is a mini mash when you steep base malts with crystal/roasted malts?

Thanks for the help.

[thekulman]

Hi Kinjar;

Steeping grains is done at a higher temperature than mashing and is usually part of an extract base recipe. When you steep you are extracting colour and flavour from the grains, but not converting the starches to sugars (you're getting your sugar from the extract). Some books say to steep the grains as high as just before the water boils, though most on this site would say that's too high.

Mashing is the process of converting the starches to sugar and is done at a much lower temp (155 F). In a mini-mash, you are extracting the sugar + the colour and the flavour from the grain.

Certain grains though (I think Crystal, Caramal and Roasted Barley being some examples) cannot be mashed by themselves (mini or otherwise) becauce the lack the enzymes necessary for the starch to sugar conversion. They must be mashed in the presence of other grains, like base malted barley, to provide the enzymes.

Kul

[Mill Rat]

Kul's correct that steeping is intended to provide flavor, color, and non-fermentable sugar extraction. The grains that work in a steep are the dark roasts (black and chocolate malts, and roasted barley) and crystal and cara-whatever malts, because these contribute negligible soluble starch to the wort.

The intent of mashing is to covert soluble starch to sugar. A mini-mash is performed to convert starches from sources that do not have the enzymes needed to convert their starch to sugar. The sources are typically non-barley grains such as oats, corn, rice, and wheat, aka adjuncts. These adjuncts are mashed with malted barley that has excess diastatic (starch-converting) power. The enzymes from the barley not only convert the starch from the barley, but the starch from the adjuncts also. Technically, the only difference between a mini-mash and an all-grain (AG) mash is size. A mini-mash also usually has a higher proportion of the adjuncts than an AG mash, as the extract added to the boil kettle will replace a significant portion of the base barley malt normally used in an AG mash.

Also, a steep is often done as the brewing water is being heated up to boiling. Most of the denizens of this site will concur that the steeped grains should be removed at about 77 C (170 F) to prevent the extraction of astringent tannic compounds that occurs at higher temperatures. Other than that, temperature during a steep is not critical.

A mini-mash has the objective of converting starches to sugars. This conversion happens efficiently in a rather narrow temperature range of 60 to 65 C (150 to 160 F). Below that range, the reactions proceeds abysmally slowly. Above that range, the diastatic enzymes that perform the conversions are degraded and cease to function. Typically, both mini- and AG mashes are held within these limits until an iodine test shows that negligible starch remains in the mash.

There's a lot more to the whole mashing process especially in AG, and there are optimal temperatures for different parts of the mashing process. The usual homebrewing guides have this in far greater detail than is proper for a 'board posting, but this should give you an overview.

[danno]

Originally posted by thekulman
Certain grains though (I think Crystal, Caramal and Roasted Barley being some examples) cannot be mashed by themselves (mini or otherwise) becauce the lack the enzymes necessary for the starch to sugar conversion. They must be mashed in the presence of other grains, like base malted barley, to provide the enzymes.

a slight correction here. crystal and caramel (which are really the same, only differing in where they come from...) malt's starches are already converted in the malting process, it's not that they can't convert themselves. normal base malts are dried before they are kilned, but crystal/caramel malts are actually kilned wet, and the conversion happens during the kilning process.

roasted barley is sorta self describing. the grains are roasted and the sugars undergo a chemical change, so no conversion is possible.

[kinjar]

Thanks for the responses, I've been trying to figure out the difference for a few days now - should have just posted and got an answer right away.

So...should I be weary of HBS Extract w' Specialty Grain kits that include adjuncts for steeping, as it sounds it won't actually do anything beneficial for the beer? Really, a mini mash would be in order?

Two styles I'm looking to tryout are an Oatmeal Stout & Rye Ale.

[markaberrant]

There is tons of info on how to start mini-mashing, so I won't go into it. But if you are already steeping grains, then you are pretty much ready to mini-mash.

And yes, oatmeal and rye both need to be mashed. I fail to understand why these kits aren't sold as mini-mash kits, I guess the term mash is just to frightening for some (I know it was for me, and then I felt really stupid when I found out how easy it was).

With my present setup, I mini-mash 8lbs of grain, and then top up with extract (about 3 lbs of DME for beers around 1.050). Living in a 2nd floor condo, and keeping a good relationship with my wife are the only things holding me back from going AG.

[dancinwillie]

agreed with all responses, however there is no need to be wary of steeping. It's not a bad thing, it's just different than a mini mash. It has it's benefits if you're extract brewing. It adds color and flavor. just not fermentable sugars.

[danno]

Originally posted by markaberrant
And yes, oatmeal and rye both need to be mashed. I fail to understand why these kits aren't sold as mini-mash kits, Norhern Brewer only sells their Oatmeal Stout kit as a mini-mash...