Sam Adams

[ratman03]

I wanted to respond to some of the derision I've read from people concerning Samuel Adams beer. As one who has enjoyed their Boston Lager for over a decade, I cannot see how anyone with even a decent palate can call this a lousy brew. Yes, Boston Beer Company is a macro brewery now, but in the mid eighties Jim Koch literally went door to door in the Boston area to convince tavern owners to carry his beer. The Boston Beer Company was instrumental in leading the microbrew revolution that has given us the wealth of choices we enjoy today. What I mean by this is that they were one of the first and most successful micros to hit the big time in the US, and make quality brewed beer acceptable in the mainstream. When you go to your local pub and have 15 beers on tap to choose from, you can thank Jim Koch, among others, for this.

I drink a lot of different styles of beer, and I make an effort to refine my palate and understand what I'm tasting. And what I taste when I drink Boston Lager is a unique, spicy, medium bodied, smooth session beer that tastes good no matter the season. Yes, it does have a sort of, shall we say, *mainstream* drinkability, but there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Add to this the fact that, according to their website, Samuel Adams is all natural with no adjuncts or preservatives.

I agree that we as beer lovers should support local breweries, and I do (there's lots to choose from here in Colorado). But bear in mind that the most important thing is to support QUALITY brewers; both Sierra Nevada and Anchor both enjoy a wide distribution, and I think most beer lovers agree that their beer is still excellent. So what if you can find Sams in the airport? Their airport pubs are always clean, well run, and the beer is fresh; when I was in Belgium I drank in pubs in the train station. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, but I maintain that we should save our ire for the chemical fizz out there (and if you think Sam is in that category, let me also suggest that you work on your tasting skills!). An everyday beer should be judged primarily its taste, ingredients, and overall drinkability, regardless of the number of barrels produced. You can't call yourself a true beer aficionado if you're judging on anything other than what's in the beer.

I'm not trying to flame anyone - I just wanted to give a perspective.
Also, I don't work for Boston Beer Co or anything, but I am from Boston and I still consider it my hometown brew.

Cheers!

[Tom C]

I have to agree. If SAm is the worst thing you have to choose from, life is not bad.

Tom C

[Brownbeard]

I really like the Sam Adams Cherry Wheat. It is unlike many fruit beers in that it is not sweet. I would like to find a good clone of that one.

[Theakston]

Originally posted by ratman03
* So what if you can find Sams in the airport?

I agree Sam is always the fall-back beer that you can depend on.

In DC Dulles airport has Old Dominion beer (Hop pocket etc). I was always the first to volunteer to meet people off their flights!

Since 9/11 you can't go back there without a ticket though:(

[newportstorm]

Nothing wrong with Sam Adams. I'd never pass one up but I rarely seek out BBC beers anymore - aside from the Double Bock and any new styles they create (like the Vienna Lager). Their Boston Ale is their best beer IMO but rarely is seen on tap because the Boston Lager gets all the pub. I'm disappointed in their decision to drop styles like Scotch, Honey Porter, etc. and their introduction of Sam Light - but it's a business and I'm not a shareholder so I'll just take my money elsewhere. Their success has had some influence in other brewery's acceptance in the mainstream.

Harpoon pared their lineup down as well - dropping gems like Spring Maibock in the past. But it was a great decision on their part to introduce the 100 Barrel Series (Oatmeal Stout, Wit, Dubbel, Barleywine). I wish Sam would do something similar to showcase their brewing talent and make rare(er) styles more accessible (sorry, Utopias is not accessible for most people).

Sorry, I can't call Sam Adams a "hometown" beer as they do very little commercial brewing in their Jamaica Plain facility. And Tremont is just a name now. Harpoon is the closest "hometown" beer Boston has and they brew lots of stuff at their VT facility.

Cheers!

[davesarman]

I loved Samuel Adams "back in the day", and still find they have a usually fine product. THe only issue I have with them is the direction they've decided to take with their growth and marketing. It seems to me (and I'm no expert) that they have jumped on the marketing schema of the mega-brewers. Loud, rowdy, young people partying and the name of the product itself has gone from "Samuel", to "Sam" and now "Sammy". Seems like they are dumbing down to me, or stooping to the megabrewers level, as it were.

[Brownbeard]

Where does this idea come from that you cannot be loud and rowdy and party with good beer? Is it written somewhere that to enjoy good beer it has to be done from my rocking chair? I love good beer. I love to get rowdy and party. I have drank good beer since college, when we partied like rock stars. Hell I discovered good beer on the Grateful Dead tour!!! There is no bigger party than that. I say party your ass off and do it with good beer. If I am gonna get piss drunk, I would just as soon enjoy the process. Being a beer snob doesn't mean you have to be dull.

[Fast_Eddy]

I agree with BrownBeard here...beer is fun and I still like to party down myself.

Also, I wouldn't care if Samuel Adams started using circus freaks to advertise their beer as long as they don't change the recipe.

The worst that could happen is their new advertising style is successful and they increase their market share and eventually replace AB as the dominant macro(wishful thinking, I know) - I can certainly imagine far worse eventuallities.

[hops99]

I've always thought Sam Adams was unfairly butchered in this forum by some, and believe that the quality of their beers, while uneven at times, is still better than most. I totally agree that the Boston Lager is STILL a quality brew, and I can STILL detect a pleasant, buttery spiciness in the beer. As for the "regular" beers, the Boston Ale is also very good, and the Cream Stout is tasty. I also like a handful of their seasonals, like the Cranberry Lambic, Double Bock, and even their Summer Ale on a sweltering July afternoon. I also miss the Scotch Ale - one of the best in the country, when it was available.

There are plenty of Sam beers I don't care for, either: I think the Pale misses the mark, the Light is a mistake, and the Spring Ale is bland. Furthermore, the Oktoberfest and Winter Lager have become very inconsistent in recent years. But, the family of Sam Adams beers, rated as a whole, are slightly above average IMO.

Like Brownbeard, I too am disappointed with the advertising backlash against Sam. Look, I'm 33, married with 3 kids, and I might make it out for a night of "partying" once or twice a year with some old college buddies. That doesn't mean that I look down on those who do have fun more often, or that I think a brewery "sells out" just because they run some fun commercials. And I think it's asinine to believe that good beer should only be enjoyed in the solititude of your basement, or your friend's garage.

We all seem to poke around the subject of getting the good beer message out, and I believe we all are doing our fair share of missionary work spreading the word. The more craft beer advertising that makes it into the mainstream, the better. Let's do what we can, without sacrificing quality, to get craft beers under the fingernails of the big three; mainstream bars, sports stadiums, concert venues, airports, etc. Why the hell do we bash a craft brewer for selling their beer(s) in a public place? So, we don't want craft brewers to succeed?

OK, local craft brewer, eliminate your advertising budget for the year - yep, pull the tv, radio, and newspaper spots touting your quality products! Why? Because the moment you start succeeding as a BUSINESS, you've sold out! Eh, I'm aimlessly ranting now, but I hope I've made sense. It all just irritates the heck out of me...

[ratman03]

Well put, hops99. I think some people tend to forget that, while brewing is a craft, outside of homebrew it is a BUSINESS, and when you're running a publicly traded company, profits are not a luxury. Like it or not, most of the time you have to advertise to succeed. I don't dislike A-B and Miller because they are big, I dislike them because their beer sucks.

I agree with davesarman's point about Sam's marketing direction, though. Personally I miss the days of radio ads with Jim Koch entreating, very plainly, to "Try my Samuel Adams Lager". But Sam's is the 5th largest US brewer now, and I think there's some kind of rule in the brewing industry that says the bigger your market share, the more insipid your marketing has to be.
Sam Light is a mistake though, and they take a credibility hit in my book for that one (I think it tastes like watery Boston Lager with a nasty aftertaste).

An interesting comment on marketing can be found on the Rogue website. Basically, they maintain that craft brewers are not actually competing directly with A-B, Miller, etc..., because essentially the makers of chemical fizz are targeting a lot of people who don't even like beer, whereas brewers like Rogue target people who do like beer and know what they want to drink. Sam Adams bridges the gap -- they're big and they market to the masses, but they still make a quality product that a beer snob can still enjoy (and get rowdy with).

[chazwicke]

I view Sam Adams as a stepping stone beer that leads to better beers. I always recommend it to novice beer drinkers or swill drinkers as a starting point for them to discover the world of fine beer. And you all are right, it is often the best beer an establishment may have available. (Including some of the bigger casinos in Vegas.) I have to say, it is about as low as I would go when having beer. I consider it far better than the macros but only one step up from them. I simply refuse to drink any macro beer for any reason even if it is all that is available. I have never faulted SA for making business decisions except I too regret that they feel it necessary to make a lite. (And I dont like their cherry).

[oakgrovebrew]

I'm with hopp99 on the Summer Ale in July, especially after coming in from cutting the grass in the Sandhills of NC. I live in an area where there isn't a Micro within 45 minute drive. So besides making your own you are limited to what you can buy in the grocery store, and if you can find it in the grocery store around here it isn't from a micro. So you have to make beer decisions.... For the price Sam Adams compares well with the megamacros and has a lot more taste than those. Now I can get the medicino's, sierra's, saranac's and all that and can even get some of the english and irish beers, but sometimes they are just not practical when you are having friends over who don't always understand that there miller lite is mildly flavored water in a can. As for the sam adam's light, If I had to drink light beer I would pick it over the others, but what else are you going to do in a beer market shaped by the latest diet craze. Light beer is the beer market now, A-B sells more BudLight than any other beer, Miller sells more MLite. Those commericials with the twins pushing horse piss is the light . When you have stock holders you have to make profits, and right now you have to have a light beer to get there. But the most important thing to remember about all of this, is that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter what anybody tells you, it is just there opinion, tongues are like fingerprints, none of them taste alike. What taste good and refreshing to me may taste like mud to the next guy or so-so to the next. It really doesn't matter who makes it as long as YOU enjoy it!

[skahtboi]

Whereas I have never really cared for the SA line of beers, I am not one to put it down either. That was why, as I stated in another thread here, that I was really surprised when I tried their Summer Ale this year. I have subsequently bought several 12 packs.

Its all a matter of taste.

[rrfc]

As a fellow micro lover i find it hard to believe that there is a single brewery out there that is trying to remain a small home town brewery! samuel adams obviously became mainstream and so large for a reason. Enjoy good beer no matter where it is served!

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by rrfc
As a fellow micro lover i find it hard to believe that there is a single brewery out there that is trying to remain a small home town brewery!


Check out New Glarus' decision to pull back their distribution from surrounding states (including a big market in Chicago) to focus on their core market of Wisconsin. They faced a decision to either expand the brewery to meet demand and possibly sacrifice quality or scale things back and take care of the "hometown" customers. They chose the latter and I think that's great. Not the norm, but nice to see.

Cheers!

[steveh]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Check out New Glarus' decision to pull back their distribution from surrounding states (including a big market in Chicago) to focus on their core market of Wisconsin.

You swiped the words right out of my mouth! I'm looking forward to sampling some of their fresh beer at the Quivey's Grove Beer Fest the first weekend in October.

S.

[PCaravan]

This is an old thread I know but ran across it when I thought I might find a Sam Adams Boston Lager clone... more or less curious about what's in it as I really have no way to properly lager.

I just had one for the first time a couple of weeks ago and I was impressed. This is an excellent beer and I wished I hadn't avoided it for so long. I avoided it because I always thought it would be like Corona (expensive version of macroswil) because of what I would here other supposed beer lovers saying about it.

A couple of weeks ago, at a restaurant I ordered a beer (not Sam's) and he brought back a Sam Adams Boston Lager (on tap) say they were out of what I ordered... well since all the other things they had were macroswil I said that fine. I was in for a nice surprise. I had a few more... and a few more since then trying to figure out what I liked about it. I think that it's got that clean lager like taste but I would definitely say that it's hopped more like I'd expect from a pale ale. Definetly unique and definetly interesting, and definetly good.

I think those that put down this beer as if it were as evil as macroswil should stop drinking beer. It's just not the same thing. I don't care how much they sell or how much they advertise.

[chazwicke]

My opinion is that it is a cut above the macroswill. A beer that I have used to introduce macro drinkers to a little flavor. I think of it as a stepping stone brew. And I think it is very drinkable unlike BMC.

[PCaravan]

I don't think it's just a cut above... I think it's a really solid beer. I'm not saying it's as good as my favorites and given it's availability (I see it everywhere) I'm sure to get bored with it and it will be relegated to backup when nothing else good is available. But comming from someone who is not bored with it yet since I've just had it recently, it's really good. Sam Adam's deserves more credit than being just a "cross over beer" IMHO even if it is good for that purpose.

[wortchillergoal]

I have to second the thought made about Boston Ale. It is a very underrated beer IMHO, being a goalie makes me quite humble too.

I don't recall Sam Adams getting that much bad press here. I always took from this community that it was considered more a stepping stone beer, being the highest step of that group, and worth enjoying from time to time.

A goalie has spoken.

[steveh]

Originally posted by PCaravan
I'm not saying it's as good as my favorites and given it's availability (I see it everywhere) I'm sure to get bored with it and it will be relegated to backup when nothing else good is available.

And therein lies the route most of us have travelled. I agree that it's not a bad beer - certainly not macro-swill, but there are just so many other good beers out there that Sam gets relegated to "back-up." On top of that, being in Goose Island country, I have my own (slightly larger than) micro to choose from, so Sam gets passed by all the more.

On the other hand, I always enjoy many of the seasonal beers Sam Adams produces.

S.

[threecb]

Originally posted by steveh
And therein lies the route most of us have travelled. I agree that it's not a bad beer - certainly not macro-swill, but there are just so many other good beers out there that Sam gets relegated to "back-up."

That's exactly what I was thinking. Many of the chain and sports bar establishments around here usually have the BL and the current Seasonal on tap as the "micro" selection, and that's when I usually drink
Sam, now. It was one of the first beers that got me into better beers (I know, different thread!), and I don't have a problem drinking it. I prefer the seasonals to the lager.

I wouldn't buy it for home, though, with so many beers out there that I haven't even tried yet!

[steveh]

Originally posted by threecb
...usually have the BL and the current Seasonal on tap as the "micro" selection,

I love it when those places have "Domestic Specials" on certain nights - $2.00 a bottle. I'll have a Sam. "Well, that's not on special." It's a "domestic." "Well, uh - it's more of an import around here." Riiight, see ya.

S.

[HogieWan]

I agree that Sam Adams is a fine beer. I just love the way that beer smells. I enjoy the Ale more than the lager, and I have called it "sammy" for a long time. SA is one of the only seasonals I can get here, and I enjoy seasonal brews. My old roommate was a BudLight man (in his defense, he olny had about 5% of his smell left after a bad sinus infection as a child - so he could smell and things tasted much different to him). SamAdams was the only "real" beer I could get him to drink.

Let's not forget, that SA is the only American beer available in Germany. It sticks to the Reinheisgebot.

[threecb]

Originally posted by steveh
I love it when those places have "Domestic Specials" on certain nights - $2.00 a bottle. I'll have a Sam. "Well, that's not on special." It's a "domestic." "Well, uh - it's more of an import around here." Riiight, see ya.

S.

I know what you mean. I once successfully argued my way to the domestic special price for Yuengling when they told me it wasn't included. They amended the signage after that...:mad:

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by HogieWan
Let's not forget, that SA is the only American beer available in Germany. It sticks to the Reinheisgebot.

Huh? Anheuser-Busch is the beer sponsor of the 2006 World Cup in Germany - one of only two beers to be sold and advertised inside the stadiums. A-B seemed to make a deal with Bitburger over a "Bud/Bit" lawsuit that was pending.

http://www.beeradvocate.com/forum/read.php?thread=402567

Cheers!

[Xaos]

Originally posted by HogieWan
Let's not forget, that SA is the only American beer available in Germany. It sticks to the Reinheisgebot.

The Rheinheitsgebot was ruled illegal with the European Constitution a couple of years ago. So beers not sticking to it can not be banned anymore, and I believe beers can not advertise that they dostick to it either (but the last I'm not really sure).

[PCaravan]

The Rheinheitsgebot was ruled illegal with the European Constitution a couple of years ago. So beers not sticking to it can not be banned anymore, and I believe beers can not advertise that they dostick to it either (but the last I'm not really sure).

I think the point here is that SA BL was the first only American beer to mee the Rheinheitsgebot AND be sold in Germany. They say it on their website. Bud may be allowed in Germany now but it certainly would never pass the Rheinheitsgebot and I think SA BL passed the Rheinheitsgebot while it was still being used.

[HogieWan]

Sorry - I read the story about AB at the World Cup. I know it used to be the only American beer there and is definately the first.

Anyone know (or could guess) what kind of hops they use in the BL or ale.

[PCaravan]

Look up their website... they have a lot more about their beers and what's in them than I would ever have expected. I've never had the Ale so I didn't even look at it when I was there. The BL is hopped with Haulertau Mittlefrew (sorry have no idea how to spell it) and Tettenanger Tettenang (same here). I think I also remember they dry hopped with Mittlfrew. I don't have the link for yah but it was an easy search the other day.

[steveh]

Anyone wanting to learn a little about some hop characteristics, take a big whiff of the Boston Lager - that sort of soapy aroma is Hallertauer hops.

Sam the first American beer to follow the Reinheitsgebot? Maybe the first micro with a large marketing budget, but I don't believe it was the first. Anchor, in its current incarnation under Maytag's ownership, has been brewing and bottling their Steam Beer - a lager - since 1971, and I'm pretty sure it follows the proper ingredient bill - for one.

The Boston Beer Co. (Sam) was founded 13 years later in 1984.

S.

[PCaravan]

There was an "AND" there.

[fretlessman71]

Yep... and that "and" was, and it was also sold in Germany. So, for a time, it was the first and only beer exported from America to Germany. That's got to count for something, doesn't it?

Sam Adams isn't a first choice, but their beers are certainly decent for the most part. Boston Ale is wonderful, and I even remember having their Double Bock many years ago and enjoying it immensely.

[eppie]

Aparently this is an old thread, but I'm new to the game here and have to add my two cents.

There's nothing wrong with Sam Adams. There's nothing wrong with Budwieser or Pabst Blue Ribbon either. They just don't taste very good. That is surely an unfair comparison, but you have to admit SA is a large corporate brewery just like the others. This isn't a socialist, anti-establishment statement, it's a fact. When production reaches a certain level, and share holder profits become a priority beer quality becomes a lower priority. For example, a brewery with a small production may stay with whole cone hops instead of hop extract despite the higher cost. When your production is tens of thousands of liters a day, that cost adds up. ratman03 defends this saying Anchor and Sierra Nevada are also widely available, but in the case of SN at least, the brewery stays pivatley owned, and has more quality control workers than brewers.

Another argument ratman03 gave was that SA adheres to the Rheinheitsgebot. Limiting yourself to water, malted grain, hops, and yeast doesn't nessecarily make a good beer. Here in Belguim, in fact, you'll have a hard time finding a beer that doesn't add sugar, unmalted grains, orange peel, cloves, or any number of other addatives and that only make the beer taste better.

That's what it's all about at the end of the day. How does the beer taste. For me give me an SA before a Coors, but if there is a choice, I'll take a craft brew. Defending SA with it's mirco brew history or it's adherence to an arbitrary list of ingredients misses the whole point. The only defence a beer has is it's taste, and for me SA doesn't cut it.

b.t.w. Adhereing Rheinheitsgebot was not ruled illeagal, it was just ruled that you could not outlaw beers that don't limit themselves to these ingredients.
________
Headshops (http://headshop.net/)

[newportstorm]

While Boston Beer Co. is far from a "microbrewery" in terms of production #s, it's beer lineup still qualifies with me to keep it in mind as a "craft brewery". Yes, they have a light beer - hated that fact when it first came out, but have learned to accept (ignore?) it. And yes, their Boston Lager isn't my favorite lager in the world, but so what - it's still a tasty beer.

I wonder how many here who condemn, or simply relegate Samuel Adams to a back up choice have explored outside the Lager, Boston Ale, etc. Grab some DBock (I prefer it after a year in the cellar), Holiday Porter (new in the winter 12pks this year), Schwarzbier (new winter beer) or Cream Stout. Or get to a beerfest (BA Extreme Beer Fest?) and get a taste of some of their more experimental stuff - 3 Weiss Men Weizenbock, Rauchbier, Double IPA, Utopias or whatever else they might be whipping up in Jamaica Plain.

I've re-evaluated my feelings about BBC over the past year or so. Maybe it's time for some others to take another look, too?

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

Fairly well put Eppie. I think everyone here thinks SA is a worthy beer to drink or at least is acceptable. Just not to all of our subjective standards. Not the first choice, but not a bad choice.

[fretlessman71]

Just tried to go to the Sam Adams site, and mistyped my birthyear in the opening page, and now they won't let me in at all! Even when I clear out my windows and reopen my browser, it won't even load up the page for me. This is really irritating! It's like being accused of trying to buy beer underage - at MY age! :mad:

[Fly Creek]

That's interesting fret - did you try deleting your temp files and cookies and all that other windows junk?

I used to know a guy in high school who made fake ID's, maybe I can get him in touch with you. :D

[corysdad]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Just tried to go to the Sam Adams site, and mistyped my birthyear in the opening page, and now they won't let me in at all! Even when I clear out my windows and reopen my browser, it won't even load up the page for me. This is really irritating! It's like being accused of trying to buy beer underage - at MY age! :mad:


Fret, I did the same thing. It drove me crazy trying to get in there.
I cleared the cookie file and the temp. file and I don't remember what else. I think I finally closed the internet connection and then signed back on and the site let me in. What a pain in the you know what. Back on subject, I don't have a problem with SA products. Some I like and some I don't. I did try a Boston Lager on tap not too long ago and found it to be quite tasty. Well balanced and a great hop finish. Definetly take SA over bmc.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Just tried to go to the Sam Adams site, and mistyped my birthyear in the opening page, and now they won't let me in at all! Even when I clear out my windows and reopen my browser, it won't even load up the page for me. This is really irritating! It's like being accused of trying to buy beer underage - at MY age! :mad:

For any site like that, forget trying to type/scroll to your actual birthday. Just use the first things available...like Jan 1, 1950. Sometimes it's just easier to lie.

BTW, I like the revamp to the Sam site - much easier to move around, more pleasing to the eye and still very informative.

Cheers!

[fretlessman71]

Hey - if anyone can get into the site, can you get me an email address so I can ask someone what to do? I've tried all suggestions on this board, and nothing - it's so bad that it won't even let the first screen load up! It just "times out" whenever I try to do it. It makes me want to boycott their beer, although as little of it that I've had in the last few years I'm sure they wouldn't notice or care... it's just really frustrating to want to read about their new beers and be shut out like this. Makes me feel like a junior high student who has to stay after school while all of his friends get to go outside and play football. :(

[newportstorm]

fret - the site may just be down. Tried to get in twice this morning but simply get "Page cannot be displayed". Site maintenance? Maybe they realized treating customers like children pisses 'em off? Who knows...

Cheers!

[SteveO]

TRUTH ! As spoken by what sounds like a well informed beer drinker. Nice reply to what I agree is an uninformed opinion. THANKS

[BrewDog]

ANOTHER Steve!!! Our numbers continue to multiply!

Welcome to the board-


Steve

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by steveh
Sam the first American beer to follow the Reinheitsgebot?
S. [/B]

I was saying it was the FIRST AMERICAN BEER IN GERMANY.

[fretlessman71]

I would still love to know if anyone else can get into this site right now: www.samueladams.com

If so, could someone find an email address for help getting onto the website or a phone number? It's STILL locking me out (assuming the site didn't just crash when I was trying to use it the other day)...

Fret

[SteveO]

I also tried that http and got nothing, but if you try bostonbeer.com you may find what your looking for?

[HogieWan]

The site is obviously down.

[Stodbrew]

Fret, you broke the Sam Adams site! :D

[steveh]

Originally posted by newportstorm
I wonder how many here who condemn, or simply relegate Samuel Adams to a back up choice have explored outside the Lager...I've re-evaluated my feelings about BBC over the past year or so. Maybe it's time for some others to take another look, too?

Ahem...
Originally posted by steveh
I agree that it's not a bad beer - certainly not macro-swill, but there are just so many other good beers out there that Sam gets relegated to "back-up." On top of that, being in Goose Island country, I have my own (slightly larger than) micro to choose from, so Sam gets passed by all the more.

On the other hand, I always enjoy many of the seasonal beers Sam Adams produces. S.

My local has had the Winter on tap since November and I've been enjoying it often.

S.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Grab some DBock (I prefer it after a year in the cellar), Holiday Porter (new in the winter 12pks this year), Schwarzbier (new winter beer) or Cream Stout. Or get to a beerfest (BA Extreme Beer Fest?) and get a taste of some of their more experimental stuff - 3 Weiss Men Weizenbock, Rauchbier, Double IPA, Utopias or whatever else they might be whipping up in Jamaica Plain.

I've re-evaluated my feelings about BBC over the past year or so. Maybe it's time for some others to take another look, too?

Cheers!

They make a Rauch!? Now you've got my attention.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by chazwicke
They make a Rauch!? Now you've got my attention.

Experimental. Not distributed outside the brewery - only beerfests that I've seen. Had two samples at last year's Extreme Beer Fest. Not a smoke bomb like some Rauchbiers can be, but paired nicely with some smoked brisket sandwiches.

Cheers!

p.s. don't believe it's on the menu for this year's EBF - but you never know.

[BrewDog]

I saw this thread today and decided WTF so I picked up a 6 of Sam Boston Lager and a 6 of Alaskan Pale Ale, which I have also ignored as I'm not that all that fond of Alaskan Amber - not that bad, just not great. (I also grabbed a 6 of SN Celebration as a backup -- just in case).

[Jake]

I agree with you 100% ratman03! I purposefully buy SA because I'm in the mood for a good lager.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I would still love to know if anyone else can get into this site right now: www.samueladams.com

If so, could someone find an email address for help getting onto the website or a phone number? It's STILL locking me out (assuming the site didn't just crash when I was trying to use it the other day)...

Fret

Site is up. Can't find an email address for contact - they have an online form to fill out for questions/sign up for email newsletter, but you need access to the site :rolleyes:

Only email I could find was re: privacy policy - privacy@samueladams.com. Hope it works for ya!

Cheers!

[Jake]

Same here, no problem accessing the site.

[fretlessman71]

Well, it must have been my attempted access a few days ago that killed it - it's back online, and I can access it as well! Serves them right for trying to ban me, don't you think? ;)

[mtnole]

Well I have been drinking Sam Adams products for over 10 years and find the quality well above average. It's a beer you can find pretty much everywhere and blows away any of the big three most commonly served beers and if i have to choose one of those i'd rather drink water.

[fatboy570]

This past August I went to Knoxville, IA on a week long racing vacation. I took a case of macroswill and 2 six packs of Samuel Adams. One evening in camp after racing, one of the other drivers, a macroswill-only drinker, tried a SA Boston Lager for the first time. He liked it so much we had to go around town and find a store that sold it. After we got home he went to the store where he gets his beer and talked the owner into stocking it. Turns out there are a lot of Samuel Adams drinkers here, as the store is always out when he goes to get some. I prefer to homebrew and will buy BudMillerCoors when the funds get tight, but two of my favorites are Samuel Adams Boston Lager and Guiness Extra Stout. I drink a wide variety of beers, often showing up at the race shop with four or five different kinds. I agree with most who have posted here, the Samuel Adams light is a mistake, but it is a business and most American beer drinkers seem to prefer a light lager (yuck).

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by mtnole
Well I have been drinking Sam Adams products for over 10 years and find the quality well above average. It's a beer you can find pretty much everywhere and blows away any of the big three most commonly served beers and if i have to choose one of those i'd rather drink water.

I'm with ya. I'd rather have nothing than drink BMC

[sundontlie]

you ever read anything michael jackson wrote about Samuel Adams? to me its reminiscent of the latest barry bonds press conference.. its very complimentary in a general scheme but stays away from some of the major concerns or debatable topics..
i'll have to find that one and post it here.. its kind of the way i feel about them too, i miss the honey porter, cranberry lambic, and the flannel 6 pack double bock, their more regular stuff is like - 'eh.. but i personally really like the chocolate bock, triple bock and the utopias II in the face of much dispute through things i've read from many members here..
i visited the brewery once and while i was there got to try some abe lincoln porter (or was it george washington?) and that was pretty good too....

[fretlessman71]

I have a George Washington Porter in my list of porters to taste, but it's by Yards....

[newportstorm]

Here are the only reviews for the Samuel Adams GW Porter I could find:

I cannot tell a lie - this beer blows! (http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/rate_results/35/16808/)

Only 2 opinions to go on, so take the tour and judge for yourself. I didn't think too much of the Yards GW Tavern Porter either - nor their Thomas Jefferson Tavern Ale. I dig history, but these beers should have been left there, imo.

Cheers!

[unkle bik]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I'm with ya. I'd rather have nothing than drink BMC

I did that or had a vodka n tonic while waiting for US Scare to reschedule my flight(s) last week.

As for SA, they put out a decent product in their lager and ale. The cherry wheat is cough syrup without codiene, to me. Their light is the only light I will drink.

As someone said in a previous post, you have to give them credit for bringing craft beer out in the limelight. Without them, it might have been a hard climb for manyother craft brewers to succeed. My guess the resentment towards SA is the fact they are growing by leaps and bounds.

To me, it all boils down to the product. I don't care how big or little the company is.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
I have a George Washington Porter in my list of porters to taste, but it's by Yards....

Really?

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by unkle bik

To me, it all boils down to the product. I don't care how big or little the company is.

Agreed.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Really? Yes, I do - thanks chaz! :D

[chazwicke]

I have one too but have not yet tried it.

[fretlessman71]

But you don't like porters anyway, chaz... how come?

[chazwicke]

I like them but they and stouts are among my least favorite styles. Except the ones I've had in the UK and the Lion from Sri Lanka. They are not as harsh or over roasty as most American Versions. I think one of the reasons I llike Oatmea Stouts as they are mellower than regular stouts. An I think most Stouts on nitro are also better. That velvety texture is nice.

[fretlessman71]

Does/has anyone ever brewed/marketed an Oatmeal Porter?

[chazwicke]

Good question. I like to moderating effects of the oatmeal.

[fretlessman71]

BUMP - gonna keep this fresh... looking for an oatmeal porter, or a reason why this would be a bad idea....

[chazwicke]

Why don't you try brewing one next time you brew?

[fretlessman71]

Sure - catch me in about 4 months... :rolleyes:

[chazwicke]

I'm feeling the urge to maybe start brewing again. I could see bringing kornies to the beach this summer.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Sorry, I can't call Sam Adams a "hometown" beer

i can :D

This was one of the brews that I cut my teeth on on my journey to enlightenment. That said, I have to mention that I rarely find Sam in my beer fridge anymore. Don't know if it's just the notion that I want to try so many other things, coupled with homebrewing or what, but i just don't drink it that much anymore.

One thing I was sorely disappointed with (on top of the $14 I paid) was the "holiday pack." I only wanted the Fezzywig and the new Porter. The Fezzy wasn't nearly as good as I remember it being and the Porter was just plain weak. Thin and no character to it. Not to mention the "Sam's Light" that I gave away and the winter lager which you can get freaking anywhere.


wow... this is somewhat disheartening to me. my first son's name is slated to be Sam based loosely on the beer. dang.

[fretlessman71]

That's too bad - I had heard some very good things about the porter. Hope I'm less discerning than you are!

(Well, reading my tasting notes, I probably am - the only beer I panned was the Polygamy. *sigh*)

[taco]

HEy, just drank 3SA BL's last night as the beginning of my journey, and I rather enjoyed them although Im pretty much a newb when it comes to full time realbeer life.

Thanks chaz for the "stepping stone" advice. Someone else also recommended it but I cant remember who:confused: It wasnt over powering but still had a nice full flavor. And it smells pretty damn good too.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by taco
And it smells pretty damn good too.

I absolutely LOVE the smell of this beer. That is the reason I return to it.

[Jake]

I've been drinking some swill of late:( i.e. PBR, Stroh's, Miller High Life. Some refer to Samuel Adams as just above the macro swills. I'm telling everyone right now that is the farthest from the truth. Everything from the appearance, smell, head, taste of Samuel Adams the swills don't come even close! I salute Jim Koch.

[SteveO]

I totally agree Jake, anyone who thinks Sam Adams even comes close to comparison of the above mentioned excuses for beer, need to have there taste buds transplanted. Jim Koch has done a wonderful job of giving the public a sort of tuning beer, that has the capability of changing the tastes that people have become used to from the American Brewers of yesterday. And at an affordable price throughout the country, he alone has help in educating the public to the total experiences of enjoying a beer. I sure don’t drink a lot of it, and think some of the styles are incorrect, but a stout drinker should never turn down one of the Cream Stouts unless the dates are way to old. And for a Lager beer the crisp taste of Sam Adams Boston Lager is great out of the bottle or on tap. Hang in there Jim and many of us will continue to support you when our taste buds are looking for a good beer, and that’s the only one available. That happens to me more times than I care to mention here in Nebraska.:cool:

[Jeff]

Welcome to the board SteveO. It's always nice to find another person living in this beer desert known as Nebraska.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Jeff
Welcome to the board SteveO. It's always nice to find another person living in this beer desert known as Nebraska.

Not to mention another Steve!! ;)

BTW - Hogie, that aroma is Hallertauer hops.

S.

[threecb]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
BUMP - gonna keep this fresh... looking for an oatmeal porter, or a reason why this would be a bad idea....

Here (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/index/date/all/oatmeal+porter/) is BA's list of Oatmeal Porters. I've heard good things about the Highland one, from Asheville, NC. Maybe you could get a trade goin' on, fret.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
That's too bad - I had heard some very good things about the porter. Hope I'm less discerning than you are!

(Well, reading my tasting notes, I probably am - the only beer I panned was the Polygamy. *sigh*)

hmm.... i've got one bottle left of the holiday porter... it nearly made your package (based on your review) but I think i must give this another shot.

That said, I think their Black Lager is really good, however only had one so far and have the other in the fridge. Only found it in a "brewmaster's pack" with two other common styles. Disheartening considering I live in the town in which they produce 2/3 of their entire line.

can't find the Scotch Ale ANYWHERE still! grrr!

[YamahaXS]

Have I ever mentioned that I have two sons.

Adam is 4 years old and Samuel is 7 months.

To be honest, its a coincidence, as Adam is a family name, and Samuel is out of thin air. BUT Sam Adams is a good beer IMO, and Adam really likes seeing his and his brothers name on printed on my beer box.

:D

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by HarkJohnny
hmm.... i've got one bottle left of the holiday porter... it nearly made your package (based on your review) but I think i must give this another shot.

That said, I think their Black Lager is really good, however only had one so far and have the other in the fridge. Only found it in a "brewmaster's pack" with two other common styles. Disheartening considering I live in the town in which they produce 2/3 of their entire line.

can't find the Scotch Ale ANYWHERE still! grrr! Saw someone leaving Wilbur's the other day with a 6er of the Black Lager, so take heart... :)

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by YamahaXS
Have I ever mentioned that I have two sons.

Adam is 4 years old and Samuel is 7 months.

To be honest, its a coincidence, as Adam is a family name, and Samuel is out of thin air. BUT Sam Adams is a good beer IMO, and Adam really likes seeing his and his brothers name on printed on my beer box.

Someday in the future, one of them will get brave and take a bottle of whiteout to the boxes, putting an "&" symbol between the words and an apostrophe after the M in Adams, and try to tell you that all the beer in those boxes belongs to he and his brother!

At least, that's what I would have done.... ;)

[chazwicke]

That is because you are a wiseguy! LOL

[Goat King]

I like it. Texas has some "interesting" liquor laws, and in my hometown, they can only sell beers up to 6% in alchohol. Combine that with the fact that there aren't any liquor stores, and if I want good beer, I have to drive to work, which is an hour away. Sam Adams is just about the only decent beer sold within "quick trip to the store" distance.

[chazwicke]

That is sad Goat King. I feel for you.

[Wild Hare One]

Samual Adams Summer Ale has become a tradition for me. Like someone earlier mentioned, I'm 33 and have kids and might get out once or twice a year with the college guys. Its gotten so bad we had to set up a tradition where we get together in the June heat, play golf, poker and drink a keg of Summer Ale.

If you haven't had one of these on a 90+ degree day, you are missing something. This is one of only a few beers that I look forward to drinking for months.

Now if anyone could please steer me to a clone recipie, I can drink it all year long

[chazwicke]

Welcome to the board Wild Hare.

[newportstorm]

Samuel Adams was pouring an Oatmeal Stout at the American Beer Fest in Boston on Sat. Very nice! I'm not surprised, as they do a nice job with several "darker" beers - Cream Stout, Black Lager, Double Bock, etc.

Cheers!

[Flamebuster]

I always have a few Sam’s on hand. I agree with many of you that their lager is not their best effort, I perfer their ale, but that is probably just our taste. Almost every pub has a Sam on tap and that is because people are buying it.

We had a discussion here at the fire house tonight regarding what was in our refrigerators at home and I was a little surprised to find such a wide and to me, bland list. But everyone agreed on Sam! Some liked the lager, others Sam Light, Cherry, etc. But everyone liked something Sam puts out. And that is saying a lot when compared to Miller, AB or Coors. Not that they weren't mentioned. And they have their following also. If people didn't like them they wouldn't be as big as they are.

But even if you hate Sam you have to appreciate what Sam has done for the market. By mass producing a good beer for a reasonable price he has helped to hold down the price of the big three as well as many of the mid-sized regional brews and that allows all of us to enjoy whatever we like without shelling out big $$$.

[mtnole]

I usually have 8-10 different beers in my beer fridge and Sam Adams Boston Ale is a regular. They also have 3 or 4 good seasonal brews and in Florida it is easily available at most stores. I say hats off to SA for their growth and product.

[HarkJohnny]

hehe, the seasonal talk reminded me of a time at a TGI Friday's that the waitress was taking our drink order....

It was early/mid september and upon inquiring what was on tap, she ran through the standard garbage and mentioned they had a Sam Adams Seasonal. We asked which one, was it the summer ale or was it maybe the oktoberfest??

"It's the seasonal" was her only reply. so from here on the running joke is to order "the seasonal"

[Insidious Rex]

I love Sam. Like someone said earlier in this thread its not the greatest beer in the world but they paved the way for some really good stuff. And I can buy a case of it without flinching. Nothing better then reasonably priced good beer. Oh and I do own stock... :D I dont even begrudge them the light. I dont drink it but hey its where the money is I guess. The only thing I hated was when they took old Sam off the label. Did having some colonial dude confidently sticking a puter mug in your face really spook that many people from drinking the beer?

[fretlessman71]

Giving credit where credit is due, I'll buy the SA Light again. It's a decent tasting "diet" beer, and INFINITELY better than anything BMC. Certainly a better thirst quencher when the temp was as hot as it was the past two weeks. VERy glad they took the stupid ads for SA Light off the air and talked about the fact that it has won awards in Germany (not even having been entered into a light beer category!). It is a well done beer to be sure, even if there is... umm... less of it.

[threecb]

The Light isn't that offensive. I'd drink it if offered. I thought that the previous incarnation of the Boston Beer Co.'s light beer, Lightship, was a pretty solid beer, too. I think it wasn't marketed right, though. There was no Sam Adams relation on the packaging.

[HogieWan]

I've enjoyed all of SAs offerings. I'm very sad to say that I can no longer get the cream stout, though. I did find recipe for a clone though, and it may be my second batch brewed in the new digs.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
glad they took the stupid ads for SA Light off the air and talked about the fact that it has won awards in Germany (not even having been entered into a light beer category!). It is a well done beer to be sure, even if there is... umm... less of it.

amen!

in fact it took a bronze at IBC for Standard Lager... no light category again!

nice to see the Choc Bock, Black Lager (which I thought was REALLY good) both got a nod, and even the Triple Bock got a Silver! Didn't know they were making it again.

p.s. how about them boys out at Rogue! whew!

[lagermonkey]

Agreed. SA Boston Lager was my first craft regular and still hits the spot. Solid lineup all around, I say. I can only think of a couple of their brews that I consider below average...

[Trippy]

As a "newbie" in this room, I'm not too sure what weight my comments carry, but I have to chime in here as a person who has drank his share of Sam Adams products. I have to say that while I have never been disappointed in any of their products, like all breweries, there are some much better than others! Let your palate be your guide. Oh, by the way, one of my favorite Sammies is now available, tis the season for October Fest! I offer this up as one of their best! Thanks for the soap-box!

[ratman03]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by SteveO
[B]I totally agree Jake, anyone who thinks Sam Adams even comes close to comparison of the above mentioned excuses for beer, need to have there taste buds transplanted."

Well put.

Wow, I can't believe my post has raged for so long.

People also need to bear in mind that BBC is a major brewer, and therefore cannot brew for the niche beer geek market. That said, what I find most impressive is the balance they strike between mainstream drinkability and taste; as most agree, they do a great job with their core offerings. I was just swilling some fresh Boston Ale at a BBQ last week and it was flat-out delicious. I agree that while some of their styles miss the mark -- the Octoberfest has been disappointing for years -- the Lager, Ale, and Summer are solid (but does anyone remember the Octoberfest in the early 90s being much richer and maltier or is that just me?). The Cream Stout is underrated.

Ratman

[steveh]

Originally posted by ratman03
[QUOTE]Originally posted by SteveO
[B](but does anyone remember the Octoberfest in the early 90s being much richer and maltier or is that just me?)

Try this year's batch, I've had a couple bottles, not able to focus enough for an eval, but I found it pretty good - sort of nutty.

S.

[Jake]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HogieWan
[B]I've enjoyed all of SAs offerings. I'm very sad to say that I can no longer get the cream stout, though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is cream stout seasonal? I see most of SA line of beers except I have never seen the ale in my area here in Michigan. Why is that?

[hops99]

Is cream stout seasonal?

Nope, it's available here in Ohio year-round.

[Jake]

Has SA lowered thier prices or something? For the longest time I could only buy SA for $7.99 (6 pack) no matter were I bought from. Then I saw it at a gas station for $6.99. Then at a party store I often buy from who use to sell it for $7.99, its now $6.59.
Maybe a little price war going on?

[HarkJohnny]

i FINALLY found a sixer of their "Black Lager"

I have to imagine a label with "Schwarzbier" on it would throw off any potential BMC buyers.


PS I was talking with a fella who works at the local SA production facility here in Cincinnati. I asked him which beers they DO NOT produce. His answer: Utopias.

He also said that since their contract with Swiller is up soon they have installed like 20 new tanks and a ton of new equip to handle the future production of all of SA's lines.

How cool is that!! :D

[Jake]

The party store I often bought SA at told me they soon will not be selling SA because they do not sell enough and would rather fill the space with something that does sell i.e. Bud Lite!

Is the Bell's next to go? Finding a store that stocks good beer in Redneckville is like trying to find snowshoes in Florida.

[Degarth]

I agree with most that Sam Adams is a well made beer and good for the style....but,I don't really like Lagers that much so it is still not something I'm ever gonna drink. If the choice is Sam Adams or nothing (BMC being equivelant to nothing) most of the time I just won't have a beer. I think a lot of beer geeks tend to shy away from lagers and that may be where some of the perceived Sam Adams bashing comes from.

I do like schwarzbiers (lager I know, but the flavor profile is a lot different) however and Sam Adams Black Lager (as others have mentioned) is a VERY good beer according to my tastebuds.

In fact of the eleven styles of SA products I have tasted I think all are good except the Light.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Degarth
I think a lot of beer geeks tend to shy away from lagers

Speak for yourself - those of us who have run the gammut from imports in the 70s, that were the only good beers around, to micro hop-bombs (that aren't as big of bombs compared to today) throughout the 80s and 90s have worked our way back around to more subtle brews like Munich lagers.

Bragging on my experience? Maybe, but I've been on a huge crusade to stop people from writing off lagers just because they aren't in-your-face as most ales tend to be - and writing them off because BMC et al have given lagers a bad name. Does it take a little more work and effort to recognize the goodness of a nice Spaten helles or Dinkel-Acker Pils? Sure, but just like anything good, it's worth the time when you realize what sublime and flavorful characteristics you've been missing.

On the other hand, I'm not a big fan of the Sam original at all. As a lager it suffers from imbalance - way too hoppy, and not hopped well. Compare it to a Pilsner Urquell that has a hoppier character, but is still balanced well so as not to overpower. But Sam's Oktoberfest was pretty good this year, and I always enjoy their Summer, Winter, and Doppelbock.

S.

[fretlessman71]

Degarth, you've just met the Realbeer Lager Apologist. (Not that he's wrong, mind you... ;) ) Welcome to the board!

[beerking]

I have to agree here on the fine qualities of a subtly balanced traditional lager. I too have run the gamut of imports only (early 80s, not the 70s) to the hop bombs, and come full circle to enjoy the more traditional beers. I would apply this to ales as well. Pure hopheads (I'm a hophead, but not a pure one), have as much difficulty finding the qualities and sublty of a 60 schilling scottish or a mild or ordinary bitter (Ram's Head and Belhaven come to mind) as they do an Oktoberfest or a Helles. Right now, Helles is my favorite style (when done well). I'd say the best way to convert people to lager appreciation in addition to the hopbombs (I still enjoy EVERYTHING Stone puts out, just in its place) would be to concentrate on doppelbocks (Steve already mentioned the SA doppel, which I think ROCKS! Tommy Knocker's Butthead is also a great beer. I should know, I gave them a gold in the 2003 GABF.) and the like. Eisbocks, Maibocks, Keller Pils, Schwarzbier and Prager/Czech Dark Lager/Tmave come to mind as well.
I have a theory that the "return" to appreciation of the subtler, more balanced traditional styles is something all beer geeks eventually mature to. I believe it has to do with how long one has been into craft beers, and what one has been drinking during that time. Steve's post would seem to validate my theory, at least in part.
I love a good hopbomb, and have made many myself, but at home right now I have a Prager, a Heather ale, and a Boh Pils (with hints of smoke) that I just recently bottled, and a Wit awaiting bottling.
If it were not for the Belgians, I think I would have to say I prefer lager over ale, and SA Boston lager is nowhere near the top of my list, although WAY above BMC.

[unkle bik]

Originally posted by Jake
Has SA lowered thier prices or something? For the longest time I could only buy SA for $7.99 (6 pack) no matter were I bought from. Then I saw it at a gas station for $6.99. Then at a party store I often buy from who use to sell it for $7.99, its now $6.59.
Maybe a little price war going on?
Currently, all varieties of SA are available for the low price 5.99 here in Ohio.

[onthesly]

Sam Adams is a good beer for up here in the great white north where its hard to find much. I didn't like the lite beer though.

[steveh]

Originally posted by beerking
I have a theory that the "return" to appreciation of the subtler, more balanced traditional styles is something all beer geeks eventually mature to. I believe it has to do with how long one has been into craft beers, and what one has been drinking during that time. Steve's post would seem to validate my theory, at least in part.

Halleluiah!! I have found brethren and someone who sees the same light!

And I honestly didn't even pay him anything! ;)

But I totally agree with King, I don't stand up for lagers to the detriment of ales in any way - I like all...okay, most beer styles. It's just that I've grown beyond the slap-in-the-face characteristics most new (good) beer drinkers seem to swoon over. They're good in their place(s), but I don't need it all the time.

I've used the comparison in the past; it's the same as appreciating a nice Pinot Gris as much as a good Zinfandel.

S.

Um, Apologist? Please. More like Centurion.

[fretlessman71]

How about "Stalwart Warrior"? Noble sounding enough for you? ;)

[chazwicke]

Steveh, Beerking and I have all had similar beer journeys. Mine dating from the 1970s as well. I have often championed the cause of Milds and cask conditioned British beers. Chiefly because they know the art of subtlety and balance. As do the German and Czech lager masters. I think some of my first posts on realbeer were discussions of American beers being a little overdone, especially Stouts, Porters and now the hop monsters and imperial brews. Years ago my favorite style was IPA. That is no longer the case. While I too like some of the big or imperial beers on occasion, I usually prefer a more subtle and balanced beer. My journey has taken me through imports and micros to lagers and finally back a bit to the more refined ales, principally cask conditioned beers. I think some of these are sublime, however, American craft brewers are only half the way there when it comes to cask-conditioned beers. Some brewers can really nail them while others mostly get close but not all the way there. In my travels over the years I have managed to drink beer in 45 States and 19 countries. I hate to say it but our Euro brothers can make some damn great beers. In another decade or so, I hope most of the American craft brewers will consistently hit the same standards. Many do now. But I can't wait for the day when the majority of brewers the world over can both make an excellent beer within traditional styles as well as keep inventing new styles and categories. There is room for all of it in the beer world.

[Cloakndagger]

Braggart!:rolleyes:

[steveh]

Originally posted by chazwicke
I think some of these are sublime, however, American craft brewers are only half the way there when it comes to cask-conditioned beers. Some brewers can really nail them while others mostly get close but not all the way there...There is room for all of it in the beer world.

Nothing like 3 Floyds Pride & Joy from the cask (well, almost nothing - you know what I mean). Whenever I see it available around Chicago I jump.

And I have to (often begrudgingly) agree with your closer. As much as I scoff at the new Imperial X beers, at least they seem to be attracting people to better beer.

S.

[chazwicke]

I had heard that a keg of Gumballhead had made it's way to a restaurant relatively near me, Tuscarora Mill in Leesburg, last night so I headed out there for dinner. It was blown! :mad: But they did have Alpha King on tap as a replacement. And they have a sister establishment in Purcellville that will have Gumballhead on tonight. I can't make the trip tonight sadly. But when speaking to the beer man at Tuskies he said that FFF beers are gonna start making it into our market and that these had actually come through a distibutor in Richmond I was excited. Perhaps we will start getting the Pride and joy at least on draft. I would love it on cask. But needless to say, any FFF beers regularly distributed to our area will be great.

By the way Both the host and server were very well versed in their beer and styles in general. I was very impressed. The lamb chops were quite nice too.

[beerking]

Chaz wrote:
"I think some of my first posts on realbeer were discussions of American beers being a little overdone, especially Stouts, Porters and now the hop monsters and imperial brews."

It is the American way: If something is good, more is better! More hops, more alcohol...

[fretlessman71]

Yes; the American brewers' motto seems to be: "Subtlety? We got subtlety up the yin-yang, baby! We'll hit you over the head with subtlety!" ;)

[HarkJohnny]

this thread is still going?? sheesh!

[newportstorm]

More malt, more hops, more alcohol is called experimentation. Something other brewing countries seem to only do sparingly nowadays. They don't always produce the best results, but without it, what progress would there be in the brewing world? And though extreme beers get a lot of publicity, they make up a very small percentage of the plethora of good American beer being made today.

Cheers!

[fretlessman71]

You want plethoras? We'll hit you over the head with pleth.... oh, forget it. ;)

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by newportstorm
More malt, more hops, more alcohol is called experimentation. Something other brewing countries seem to only do sparingly nowadays. They don't always produce the best results, but without it, what progress would there be in the brewing world? And though extreme beers get a lot of publicity, they make up a very small percentage of the plethora of good American beer being made today.

Cheers!

We certainly need experimentation. And I think many of the big beers are wonderful. I'm not trying to denigrate those beers and styles at all. They bring publicity to the craft beer world and in turn more craft beer drinkers. And there are some fine new styles. I'd be willing to bet that Stone brewing has brought many new drinkers into the beer world. And rightly so. American brewers are doing their job and getting better and better at it. The day will come when I can routinely get consistantly superb cask conditioned brew at a few of my locals. I just think that is still a few years off. But I am convinced that day will come.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by chazwicke
[B]I had heard that a keg of Gumballhead had made it's way to a restaurant relatively near me, Tuscarora Mill in Leesburg, last night so I headed out there for dinner. It was blown! :mad: But they did have Alpha King on tap as a replacement.

Wow! Really? Ive never seen Alpha King on tap in this area. If that place was just a little closer (and didnt have appetizers for $15...) I might just go there for dinner this weekend...

But when speaking to the beer man at Tuskies he said that FFF beers are gonna start making it into our market and that these had actually come through a distibutor in Richmond I was excited. Perhaps we will start getting the Pride and joy at least on draft. I would love it on cask. But needless to say, any FFF beers regularly distributed to our area will be great.

Thats fantastic news. I need a steady alpha king case source. Its still hit or miss around here. Not to mention hopefully this means we will be seeing more exotic 3Floyds fair like the Dreadnaught and the Dark Lord.

[onthesly]

FFF? Sounds like someone trying not to cuss. What is FFF?

[Insidious Rex]

http://www.threefloyds.com/

[hops99]

Speaking of Sam Adams and extreme beers (wow, I've got my uniting centrist hat on today), I just got a sample of their new Imperial Pilsner today. I haven't tried it yet - probably tonight - but it's going to retail for $13.99 per 24 oz. bottle here in Ohio.

Pretty damn steep IMO - this will likely be a hard sell.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by hops99
Speaking of Sam Adams and extreme beers (wow, I've got my uniting centrist hat on today), I just got a sample of their new Imperial Pilsner today. I haven't tried it yet - probably tonight - but it's going to retail for $13.99 per 24 oz. bottle here in Ohio.

Pretty damn steep IMO - this will likely be a hard sell.

$13.99? WTF? Check out the press release - states a suggested retail price of $4.99. Who's screwing who?

http://beeradvocate.com/forum/read.php?thread=579421

Cheers!

[hops99]

$13.99? WTF? Check out the press release - states a suggested retail price of $4.99. Who's screwing who?

In Ohio, the state sets beer and wine minimum pricing. Retailers can price beyond the state minimum, but can't go below. My Sam Adams rep said the state min. was going to be $13.99 (comparatively speaking, the Chocolate Bock state min. was $14.99 last year). Hopefully, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, which wouldn't surprise me....

[Degarth]

Speak for yourself -

And here I thought that "I think" was speaking for myself. Next time I'll try YOU think :D

Seriously though what portion of the 3.7 billion a year in craft beer sales is lager? I'd wager it's a small percentage. While Sam Adams is good it is still a lager and "I THINK" most beer geeks tend to favor bigger brews and those tend to be ales no lagers.

Then again I consider a beer geek to be someone who has tried at least one sample of most styles availible and not someone who has tried 500 of one style.

Someone who has seen EVERY horror movie ever made is I guess technically a movie lover, but it's much more accurate to say they are a horror movie lover because there is no guarantee they would like Shrek because they liked Halloween 3.

Likewise if someone has had sampled a zillion lagers it is more accurate to say they are lager geek because they probably couldn't tell you much about a Flemish Sour. A beer geek will drink any style he can get his hands on-and does.

So naturally a lager lover will appreciate Sam Adams...and well they should. But, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of die hard craft beer geeks don't paticuarly go gaga over it.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Wow! Really? Ive never seen Alpha King on tap in this area. If that place was just a little closer (and didnt have appetizers for $15...) I might just go there for dinner this weekend...



Thats fantastic news. I need a steady alpha king case source. Its still hit or miss around here. Not to mention hopefully this means we will be seeing more exotic 3Floyds fair like the Dreadnaught and the Dark Lord.

I was stunned that the Gumballhead was available. A friend of mine who works out in Leesburg had had it the night before and told my buddy Jim, whom you have met, and he in turn called me. So I made arrangements to head out for dinner. But I was too late and the keg had blown. Again, he said another keg of it was going on tonight at their other sister establishment in Purcellville which is a bit farther than Leesburg. But The Alpha King was a happy back up. It was the first time I have had it on tap too. The guy who I spoke with about it when I first got there said they may have some bottles of Dark Lord in the future. But I agree that Three Floyds will be welcome in our area. Previously It has been sporadic at places like Whole Foods. And Gumballhead only seems to get here on and off. I've found Dreadnaught before too. Alpha King, Robert the Bruce and Pride & Joy seem more available. If I was going to be in town this weekend, I'd join you out there. I heading to the beach.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by Degarth
Seriously though what portion of the 3.7 billion a year in craft beer sales is lager? I'd wager it's a small percentage. While Sam Adams is good it is still a lager and "I THINK" most beer geeks tend to favor bigger brews and those tend to be ales no lagers.

So naturally a lager lover will appreciate Sam Adams...and well they should. But, it doesn't change the fact that a lot of die hard craft beer geeks don't paticuarly go gaga over it.

No clue what portion of craft beer sales is lager. Samuel Adams is not a lager. It's a brand. Boston Lager, Black Lager, etc. are lagers. And since Samuel Adams is quite possibly the largest craft brewer around, all the sales of their Boston Lager and Light certainly do add up.

Beer geeks tend to favor big brews? Really? I've said it many times - extreme beer/big beer might get a lot of talk, but they are the minority of the craft beer segment. Hype does not = sales figures. Even craft brewers have to appeal to a broad audience to stay afloat and brewing lots of big beers won't get it done. They'll get you noticed, but rarely will they pay the bills.

Plenty of big lagers out there - Doppelbocks, Eisbocks, Double Pilsners, Strong Lagers, etc.

Plenty of beer geeks blow their wad over the next big thing, no matter if it's an alcohol fueled mess. "It's new and I have one" kinda mentality. Beer spotters - nothing more. Beers don't need to blow your palate away to be great. Greatness comes in all shapes.

Cheers!

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by hops99
In Ohio, the state sets beer and wine minimum pricing. Retailers can price beyond the state minimum, but can't go below. My Sam Adams rep said the state min. was going to be $13.99 (comparatively speaking, the Chocolate Bock state min. was $14.99 last year). Hopefully, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, which wouldn't surprise me....

Let's hope your rep is a dolt and the minimum is $3.99, not $13.99. If I see it around here over $10....fuhgeddaboutit...

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by newportstorm

Beers don't need to blow your palate away to be great. Greatness comes in all shapes.

Cheers!

Amen!

[beerking]

Regarding whether lager is a sizeable percentage of craft sales: most of the SA products (not all) are lagers, and they sell a lot of them, worldwide. In fact, the label on this year's SA Oktoberfest says it is the largest selling O'fest beer in the world.

From that, I'd guess lager holds its own in craft sales. Add in Stoudts, DeGroens (once upon a time), and others, and they do add up.

[chazwicke]

Old Dominion too.

Was at Stoudts last Friday evening. Talked with Ed about his new bottling line. He is extremely happy with it. I asked if it was Krones and he said no. It is an italian made line. Ed also said that some of the other manufacturers use Italian made parts for thier lines. Interesting.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by beerking
Regarding whether lager is a sizeable percentage of craft sales: most of the SA products (not all) are lagers, and they sell a lot of them, worldwide. In fact, the label on this year's SA Oktoberfest says it is the largest selling O'fest beer in the world.



IIRC, this is a marketing play on spelling. Sam Adams is an Octoberfest beer, not an Oktoberfest beer. Willing to bet most German Oktoberfest lagers outsell Samuel Adams' version at Munich's big party alone.

Prost!

[chazwicke]

Newport, Are you going to the New England Fest this Saturday? I was originally going to go and also to Maine Brewers in Portland on the 5th of Nov. But not sure at this point if I want to get that far from home as my wife has a terminal relative that may pass anytime.

I also have plans to get back to the January festival. Might fly in this time.

[brewcrew76]

Originally posted by chazwicke
But The Alpha King was a happy back up. It was the first time I have had it on tap too. The guy who I spoke with about it when I first got there said they may have some bottles of Dark Lord in the future. But I agree that Three Floyds will be welcome in our area. Previously It has been sporadic at places like Whole Foods. And Gumballhead only seems to get here on and off. I've found Dreadnaught before too. Alpha King, Robert the Bruce and Pride & Joy seem more available.

Mmmm..Dreadnaught :D I guess Chicagoland is spoiled being so close to FFF. I have seen Alpha King, Pride & Joy and Gumballhead on tap in numerous bars this summer with Alpha King and Pride & Joy on cask in several also. For some reason I assumed FFF was more available elsewhere.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Newport, Are you going to the New England Fest this Saturday? I was originally going to go and also to Maine Brewers in Portland on the 5th of Nov. But not sure at this point if I want to get that far from home as my wife has a terminal relative that may pass anytime.

I also have plans to get back to the January festival. Might fly in this time.

Not going. First BA Fest I've missed since their Stammtisch festival in 2003. Taking my 3 month old trick or treating with his cousins. He'll be a shark :D

Might swing by The Tap in Haverhill for a few beers - that's the extent of my beer travels lately. Sorry to hear about your in-laws. God bless.

Cheers!

[steveh]

One big factor to figure is that ales are easier and quicker to make well than a (good) lager. Micros and Brew-pubs make more ales because they can churn them out easier and faster - so it stands to reason that many "beer geeks" haven't ventured toward lagers because of availability.

Me, I like looking for a well-made lager.

S.

[Insidious Rex]

Originally posted by brewcrew76
Mmmm..Dreadnaught :D I guess Chicagoland is spoiled being so close to FFF. I have seen Alpha King, Pride & Joy and Gumballhead on tap in numerous bars this summer with Alpha King and Pride & Joy on cask in several also. For some reason I assumed FFF was more available elsewhere.

Yeah it was like being in candy land when I was over there a few months ago. Between the beer and the pizza... *drool* But its really hard to find their stuff here in bars and you only get a few products in the stores. I often forget that good beer, like politics, tends to be local.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by hops99
Speaking of Sam Adams and extreme beers (wow, I've got my uniting centrist hat on today), I just got a sample of their new Imperial Pilsner today. I haven't tried it yet - probably tonight - but it's going to retail for $13.99 per 24 oz. bottle here in Ohio.

Pretty damn steep IMO - this will likely be a hard sell.

a member of my brewclub who works for SA here in Cincy brought some (fresh from the brewery no less) to our meeting last friday night. It was gone before I got to it... dangit!

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by steveh
Me, I like looking for a well-made lager.

S.

and boy don't we know it!! hehe

j/k Steve-o. Keep preaching the word of the Lager

[steveh]

Originally posted by HarkJohnny
and boy don't we know it!! hehe

j/k Steve-o. Keep preaching the word of the Lager

Yeah, you and I really ought to trade homes - I'd love having a Hofbräuhaus in my back yard!! Maybe some day.

And you'd love Goose Island right down the street!

S.

[chazwicke]

Both are great places! But even though the HB haus in KY is a brewery, I liked the one in Vegas better. Anyone heard anything about the Pittsburgh HB?

[Degarth]

No clue what portion of craft beer sales is lager. Samuel Adams is not a lager. It's a brand. Boston Lager, Black Lager, etc. are lagers. And since Samuel Adams is quite possibly the largest craft brewer around, all the sales of their Boston Lager and Light certainly do add up.

Sam Adams IS a lager. By definition. It may also be part of their branding, but it is still a lager.

They are certainly large (the largest by far) and certainly sell a lot of beer, but I'd wager the majority of craft brewers sell much more that isn't lager.

Of the following breweries how many have a lager as their flagship beer other than Boston Beer:

1,267,000 (bbls) - Boston Beer
589,937 (bbls) - Sierra Nevada
331,000 (bbls) – New Belgium
216,400 (bbls) – RedHook
199,000 (bbls) – Widmer Bro’s
142,533 (bbls) – Pyramid
90,400 (bbls) – Alaskan
89,083 (bbls) – Boulevard
86,681 (bbls) – Harpoon
83,599 (bbls) – Anchor
79,226 (bbls) – Full Sail
61,000 (bbls) – Mindocino
59,782 (bbls) – Summit
50,508 (bbls) - Shipyard
50,428 (bbls) – Goose Island
47,479 (bbls) – Bells / Kalamazoo
47,111 (bbls) – Magic Hat
45,050 (bbls) – Abita
44,800 (bbls) – Brooklyn Brewery
38,924 (bbls) – Rogue
31,974 (bbls) – Stone
30,048 (bbls) – Flying Dog
27,593 (bbls) – Great Lakes
25,909 (bbls) - Odell
24,800 (bbls) - New Glarus
20,200 (bbls) - Dogfish Head
18,000 (bbls) - Sweetwater
17,793 (bbls) – Boulder Beer
17,553 (bbls) – North Coast
9,120 (bbls) – St. Arnold
8,984 (bbls) – Left Hand
6,290 (bbls) – Highland
3,256 (bbls) – Real Ale


Many of them make lagers, but few other than Boston BC sell as much lager as ale. And of those that do sell a lot of lager they tend to be non-typical German styled lagers as opposed to premium american style lagers.

Anyway, it's just my opinion that Sam Adams gets dissed because a LOT of beer geeks (certainly not all) tend to favor the flavor profile of ales. Like I said it's my opinion, but I think it is at least a marginally grounded opinion.

[danno]

Originally posted by Degarth
Sam Adams IS a lager. By definition. It may also be part of their branding, but it is still a lager. I'll politely disagree. Sam Adams is a brand, not either a lager or an ale. they make both lagers and ales, right?

what amazes me about this list, (well, maybe not) is that I see in inverse "spectacular beer" ratio to the volume. for instance, I'm a pretty big Summit fan, being they're right in my back yard, (and I get to drink limited edition, tap only great beers) but there's a lot of breweries below them that make much more amazing beers.... (i.e: DHF, Bells, Stone, Great Lakes, New Glarus, North Coast). so, I'm going to make the assumption that in order to be highly popular, one must appeal to the masses, not to the snobs. so if that means lagers, so be it. i'll never be one to hold success against anyone... until they're too big, when we start to hold it against them... :D

[Degarth]

I'll politely disagree. Sam Adams is a brand, not either a lager or an ale. they make both lagers and ales, right?

By Sam Adams I was referring to the subject of this thread. Sam Adams Lager. Are you saying Sam Adam's flagship Boston Lager is not a Lager? Cause I don't see how it couldn't be a lager since it definitely is not an ale.

As far as the inverse ratio and appealing to the masses no one except Boston beer is really doing that. Who else has a lager as their flagship beer?

Sierra Nevada is pretty large and they sell a VERY hoppy beer as their flagship beer and might sell more porter than anyone in the country.

Unlike Bud being bigger than the next 100 or so breweries combined...the next 4 breweries, in this list, produce more beer than BBC.

New Belgium's flagship Fat Tire is an ale not a lager.
Redhooks best sellers are ales.
Widmer Brothers bestseller is an ale.
Same for Pyramid, but their Kolsch sells well also.

Of those brewers whose products I have had I can't find ONE that sells more lager than ale. I might be missing it, but even so not many do.

Again it is just my opinion that since MOST major craft brewers lean trowards ales...as do many craft beer drinkers and that ales often have bigger flavor profiles..this tends to lower some craft beer drinkers opinion of Sam Adams Lager.

It certainly does lower my opinion of it because I have never had a lager (all styles) that was as flavorful and enjoyable to me as ales (all styles) are.

For many people Sam Adams Playa Hating might be a simple backlash to the shove it down your throat marketing of BMC all of who specialize in...lagers. I think their is some of that and it isn't deserved because Sam Adams is good beer...but it is still lager and speaking solely for myself lagers don't have as much flavor as ales.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Degarth
As far as the inverse ratio and appealing to the masses no one except Boston beer is really doing that. Who else has a lager as their flagship beer?


Anchor.

BTW - the subject of this thread is Sam Adams. Not the Boston Lager, but the whole brand.

S.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by Degarth
Who else has a lager as their flagship beer?

Don't have sales figures, but off the top of my head:
-Sierra Nevada's Summerfest (lager) sells very well
-Anchor Steam is a lager - call it a hybrid if you'd like, but it uses lager yeast
-Brooklyn Lager (Vienna Lager) is their flagship beer, not to mention their Pilsner.
-Great Lakes sells a lot of Dortmunder Gold and Eliot Ness.
-Etc.

And no, Samuel Adams isn't a lager. It's a brand. Boston Lager is a lager style. The original topic, started looong ago, dealt with Samuel Adams as a whole brand, not just the Boston Lager.

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Degarth


As far as the inverse ratio and appealing to the masses no one except Boston beer is really doing that. Who else has a lager as their flagship beer?


Old Dominion. Thier first beer and Flagship is their lager. They make both ales and lagers though. I was surpised not to see them on that list. They are an early brewery dating to the 1980s and have an extensive reach especially with the restaurant "put your name here" beers which usually are their lager.

[hops99]

By Sam Adams I was referring to the subject of this thread. Sam Adams Lager. Are you saying Sam Adam's flagship Boston Lager is not a Lager? Cause I don't see how it couldn't be a lager since it definitely is not an ale.

Hmmm....it looks like Yogi Berra is posting these days.

[beerking]

Originally posted by Degarth
1. As far as the inverse ratio and appealing to the masses no one except Boston beer is really doing that. Who else has a lager as their flagship beer?


2. Same for Pyramid, but their Kolsch sells well also.


3. It certainly does lower my opinion of it because I have never had a lager (all styles) that was as flavorful and enjoyable to me as ales (all styles) are.

speaking solely for myself lagers don't have as much flavor as ales. [/B]


1. OK, a little old, and out of business, but both DeGroens/Baltimore Brewing and Chesbay sold mostly/all lagers - and a lot of them in thier time! Also, Stoudt's today sells a LOT of lager.

2. Kolsch is an ale, aged cold (like cream ale).

3. You should try a good Doppelbock, eisbock or rauch beer. All EXTREMELY flavorful and enjoyable. Not to pick nits, but perhaps it is strong malt flavor you do not prefer, rather than lager. Most high flavor ales tend to be very hoppy, whilst most high flavor lagers tend to be very malty.

In fact, I have heard the "philosophy" of beer styles summed up quite well: Ales (esp British) tend to concentrate on/emphasize hops, lagers (German) tend to concentrate on/emphasize malt, and Belgians concentrate on/emphasize yeast. (All refering to primary flavor characteristics).

OBTW, a check of the Sam Adams site reveals that they sell 6 lagers, and 11 ales (I didn't count the extreme beers, since I haven't a clue how to categorize Millenium or Utopias).

[steveh]

Originally posted by beerking
In fact, I have heard the "philosophy" of beer styles summed up quite well: Ales (esp British) tend to concentrate on/emphasize hops, lagers (German) tend to concentrate on/emphasize malt, and Belgians concentrate on/emphasize yeast. (All refering to primary flavor characteristics).

Interesting philosophy, I like it.

Oh yeah, Capital of Wisconsin makes lagers in majority - a brown ale and a couple Weizens being their only top fermenters. I really hope Kirby makes the Weizendoppelbock again, it matched Schneider's Aventinus head to head.

S.

[Degarth]

From the FIRST post in the thread.

"And what I taste when I drink Boston Lager is a unique, spicy, medium bodied, smooth session beer that tastes good no matter the season. Yes, it does have a sort of, shall we say, *mainstream* drinkability, but there is nothing inherently wrong with that. Add to this the fact that, according to their website, Samuel Adams is all natural with no adjuncts or preservatives"

Not talking about Boston Lager there eh? Could have fooled me. He mentions Sam Adams, but only describes the lager in depth.

To me that indicates THAT is the beer he means.

As far as Anchor...true it is a lager and boy does it taste just like one too.. But it's brewed like an Ale using Lager yeasts which gives it a different flavor profile. Most of the large craft brewers do sell more ale than anything else..

As far as malty beers I LOVE malty beers and didn't say anything to indicate I didn't. In fact I favor malty beers. Scwarzbiers are one of my favorite styles. But, Bocks and Scwarzbiers while lagers DO NOT share the same flavor profiles as commonly produced lagers ie pale, premium, pilsener. Of the 870+ beers I have kept notes on the majority are fairly malty because I seek them out.

The sales figures bear it out when you address the FIRST post in this thread...not the points everyone makes in later posts...Sam Adams gets bashed because MOST craft brewers deal in Ale and Sam Adams bucks that trend (and echoes the success of BMC) by making a lager their main beer AND they are successful doing it...

Again...I'm not tired of saying it...to answer the question in the first post..Sam Adams is a victim of following the lager model and the fact is lagers are typically much less complex and flavorful than ale styles. Not to say there aren't exceptions.

[brewcrew76]

Originally posted by steveh
I really hope Kirby makes the Weizendoppelbock again, it matched Schneider's Aventinus head to head.
S.

Goose Island - Clybourn currently has a dunkleweizenbock on tap. I am not familiar enough with this style and the other beers in it for comparison but I thought it was very good.

[hops99]

Again...I'm not tired of saying it...to answer the question in the first post..Sam Adams is a victim of following the lager model and the fact is lagers are typically much less complex and flavorful than ale styles. Not to say there aren't exceptions.

What exactly is Sam Adams a victim of? Their own success? If you hop over to BA, you'll see some glowing reviews for Sam Adams beers (perhaps somewhat due to a regional bias), and all of my beer-geek friends still enjoy a Sam Adams Boston Lager from time to time. I've been into craft beer for about 12 years now, and I still enjoy a Sam Adams BL every once in a while. It's a fine beer, IMO.

Is there some governing body I don't know about that has made a sweeping proclamation about the "complexity" of ales being superior to lagers? To each his own, but I'd take a glass of Great Lakes Dortmunder over any Pale Ale every day of the year.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by hops99
In Ohio, the state sets beer and wine minimum pricing. Retailers can price beyond the state minimum, but can't go below. My Sam Adams rep said the state min. was going to be $13.99 (comparatively speaking, the Chocolate Bock state min. was $14.99 last year). Hopefully, he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about, which wouldn't surprise me....

hops, another article that states $4.99 as the suggested retail price. If Ohio really did set a minimum of > $10 for this, seems crappy, as Samuel Adams is in their own backyard.

SA Imperial Pilsner (http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051028/BIZ/510280340/1001)

Cheers!

[steveh]

Originally posted by hops99
Is there some governing body I don't know about that has made a sweeping proclamation about the "complexity" of ales being superior to lagers?

I believe there is a body, but it's mostly newer beer drinkers, or those who moved up to the highly complex ales and never bothered to reach beyond and go back to discover the delicious subtleties of a (good) lager.

Not to mention that due to the (relative) ease of brewing them, ales have flooded the market.

Degarth, the title of the thread is "Sam Adams," leaving the umbrella spread wide - and it's good that the Sam umbrella is so wide. However, I'm no longer a huge fan of the flagship Boston Lager, it seems to have become a "utility" beer when there's nothing else to have, and I just don't care for the balance. And I'm still not sure just what style it's supposed to represent. It's too heavy in body for a Pils, too heavy and hoppy for a Helles or Dortmunder. Really makes me wonder what the Imperial Pils tastes like.

S.

[hops99]

Nope - my distributor is an imbecile. I found out yesterday that it will be $4.99 a bottle. Still haven't gotten around to trying it yet.

[Teej]

Originally posted by steveh
It's just that I've grown beyond the slap-in-the-face characteristics most new (good) beer drinkers seem to swoon over. They're good in their place(s), but I don't need it all the time.


I've preferred heartier craft brews since I began drinking beer...but I don't think I fit your "new good beer drinkers swooning over in your face brews"....

My $.02...

I like what I like, and that depends on why I'm drinking beer...When I'm having a beer with a meal, I'll frequently choose a "megabrau" because they go well with pizza or burgers or whatever. What's the point in having the "good stuff" when it's just washing down food and you won't savor the flavor anyway...As much as I love a Guinness, for example...I generally don't have one with a meal when I won't enjoy the beer's flavor.

I do tend away from "subtle" beers though. My favorites are stouts and IPAs....or even Imperial stouts / double IPA. We have a locally made schwarz/kulmbacher that I love as well (Sprecher Black Bavarian)

Lately I'm finding Dogfish 90 minute to be tasty...although it needs more hops to be taken seriously.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Teej
What's the point in having the "good stuff" when it's just washing down food and you won't savor the flavor anyway...

Because good beer and good food go together as well as good food and good wine?

Just your saying that you have no qualms grabbing a megabrew (swillsner in my vernacular) puts us in different leagues. I can't recall the last time I had MC. I recall the last B because it nearly killed me with its malted rice.

S.

[hops99]

Because good beer and good food go together as well as good food and good wine?

No question mark needed!

[Teej]

Originally posted by steveh
Because good beer and good food go together as well as good food and good wine?

Just your saying that you have no qualms grabbing a megabrew (swillsner in my vernacular) puts us in different leagues. I can't recall the last time I had MC. I recall the last B because it nearly killed me with its malted rice.

S.

Heh....well...I do find myself drinking the megas less and less..even with food...but.....A lot of it comes down to the fact that most of the beer I really _like_ is too heavy/filling to enjoy with food. I probably overstated how willing I am to drink it however. I'll buy a sixer when I'm making brats at home and eventually drink it just to get rid of it...or use it to wash down a carry-out 'za or something. I don't, however, go into the store and say "Man, I could really go for a Miller tonight. That just doesn't happen. :)

Lately, too, I've gone more for ordering a good beer with food and enjoyed it before/after the meal, letting the washing-down duties go to water.

When I'm drinking water or soda and wash down a bite of food, it's usually several healthy swallows. Do that with the beers I _like_ and I'll be filled up...fast.

I agree with you on the B and the C...but part of it is that I've got a soft spot for the 'M'. I worked there for several years (in IT, not on the lines) and a number of my friends still do. Even so, it accounts for a very tiny percentage of my beer consumption.

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by Teej

When I'm drinking water or soda and wash down a bite of food, it's usually several healthy swallows. Do that with the beers I _like_ and I'll be filled up...fast.
So I gotta solution for you... order a glass of water with your meal, AND a good beer. When you want to wash food down, do it with the water; when you want a sip of good beer, you're all set to go. Give it a shot!

[chazwicke]

Cask ales can be subtle and sublime too. Most English Real ale is not "in your face" like many American beers are. My point has always been that what ever the style, finesse is what makes certain beers better than others others. American beers in general , WITH EXCEPTIONS, are still not at that level.

Sam Adams flagship lager IMHO is better than Yuengling but, I too, view it as a utility beer that I will drink when I'm out as a last resort. It is beer that most restaurants stock.

[Teej]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
So I gotta solution for you... order a glass of water with your meal, AND a good beer. When you want to wash food down, do it with the water; when you want a sip of good beer, you're all set to go. Give it a shot!

Uh...isn't that what I just said? :D

...as I take a nice swig of Capital "Autumnal Fire". Mmm. Beer.

[beerking]

Originally posted by steveh
I recall the last B because it nearly killed me with its malted rice.

S. [/B]

AB does not use MALTED rice. They just use plain rice.

I took the brewery tour at Coors many years ago, and when the Vanna White style tour guide showed pictures of beer ingredients, the rice was introduced as giving beer its "drinkability."

Personally, I seem to prefer the "undrinkable" beers.

[steveh]

Originally posted by beerking
AB does not use MALTED rice. They just use plain rice.

You sure? Used as a fermentable adjunct, it must be malted to create the enzymes, no? Or have I missed something in the past (though I never wanted to use rice in any of my recipes), does rice not need malting to create fermentables?

Personally, I seem to prefer the "undrinkable" beers.

Heh, BMC's synonym for "drinkable" is "bland." ;)

S.

[beerking]

Originally posted by steveh
You sure? Used as a fermentable adjunct, it must be malted to create the enzymes, no? Or have I missed something in the past (though I never wanted to use rice in any of my recipes), does rice not need malting to create fermentables?
S.

The enzymes from the malted barley they use are enough to convert the starches in the rice to sugar.

[Sladek]

Originally posted by beerking
I took the brewery tour at Coors many years ago, and when the Vanna White style tour guide showed pictures of beer ingredients, the rice was introduced as giving beer its "drinkability."
!! "Drinkability"!!! Unbelievable. Here's to UNdrinkability!!!

[ratman03]

Originally posted by steveh
Anchor.

BTW - the subject of this thread is Sam Adams. Not the Boston Lager, but the whole brand.

S.

The original subject of this thread was my defense of Sam Adams Boston Lager (read the 1st post). I was finding that people were bashing it undeservedly. I still can't understand how anyone has a bone to pick with this beer. It's delicious. Not all lagers taste like pilsners! Lagers can be malty and complex like ales. Ever had Brooklyn Lager? That's another good example. If you ferment with bottom fermenting lager yeast, it's a lager.

Also, you can't judge a beer for what it ISN'T. SA Boston Lager is what it is, and tell me this: What other beer tastes like it? It's unique. I just get sick of hearing newbie beer geeks dis on a brand because it's not a raging 80+ IBU hop and alchohol monster, or completely out-of-balance west coast pale ale (note: I LOVE west coast pale ales, but some of them are unbalanced). Those high octane styles are great when you're up for it, but personally I can't drink beer like that all the time.

And what's with acting like Sam's isn't legit because they're big? Lose the anti-corporate at any cost mentality, people. They brew good all-natural beer, and it's widely available. They are a huge company and they have to conduct themselves like one -- and that includes advertising and marketing their product. Yet, their success is what keeps you and I from having to drink Bud on tap at crap-ass bars (actually, I shouldn't say that, I would never even drink Bud anymore). Seriously, how many times have you been somewhere and the only choices are Coors, Bud, Miller, etc.. and Sam Adams. How can you not be happy about that? As beer lovers, we have it SO GOOD in the U.S. these days.

Also: steveh, I'm not addressing you in particular on this post - I was quoting you only to clarify the original intent of the post. I love the fact that this post has a 2 year lifespan!

Cheers!

[ratman03]

Originally posted by Jake
[QUOTE]Originally posted by HogieWan
[B]I've enjoyed all of SAs offerings. I'm very sad to say that I can no longer get the cream stout, though.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is cream stout seasonal? I see most of SA line of beers except I have never seen the ale in my area here in Michigan. Why is that?

They might not distribute it to your state or area. Boston Beer Co might have decided not to market it where you are. I've noticed that in California for instance, I can't find Sam Adams Boston Ale. I've seen every other beer they make, but never the ale.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by ratman03
Seriously, how many times have you been somewhere and the only choices are Coors, Bud, Miller, etc.. and Sam Adams. How can you not be happy about that? As beer lovers, we have it SO GOOD in the U.S. these days.



I agree with just about everything you said except this. Sorry, but BMC + Samuel Adams doesn't excite me. Relief? Maybe, if I'm stuck in a bar somewhere. But happy? Never. Too much good, local craft beer out there to have such a pedestrian selection. I agree that it's a great time to be a beer lover in the US. Craft beer is growing while other beer/booze segments are stagnating. Yet, we still represent less than 5% of the total beer market so there is a lot of work to be done.

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

I find that most places that have mainly the megas will usually have Sam Adams, Guinness and sometimes even Sierra Nevada PA. Around here you are likely to find Yuengling too but I think Yuengling Lager is a half step above the macro swill.

[beerking]

Originally posted by newportstorm
I agree with just about everything you said except this. Sorry, but BMC + Samuel Adams doesn't excite me. Relief? Maybe, if I'm stuck in a bar somewhere. But happy? Never. Too much good, local craft beer out there to have such a pedestrian selection. Cheers!

The point, at least for me, is the bar that only carries BMC and SA will never carry those great local craft beers. If it weren't for SA, I'd be staying away from those bars, even when all my friends are going there after work. Thankfully, when I join them I have a good beer to drink while I'm there. If it weren't for SA, and Jim's intense marketing, that would not be the case.

As for the marketing having to be "like a large corporation," Jim's marketing style has changed very little over the years. Anyone else remember the year that he hijacked the "consumer preference poll" at the GABF, primarily to make the point that the poll was worthless? That is what led to the judging by a panel of expert judges that we see today, yet that was while SA was still very small. the splash he made that year probably went a long way in raising market awareness of his brew, and helping his company grow.

Sure, that little trick went a long way for SA, but it also led to a greatly improved GABF, especially where the competition is concerned.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by beerking
The point, at least for me, is the bar that only carries BMC and SA will never carry those great local craft beers. If it weren't for SA, I'd be staying away from those bars, even when all my friends are going there after work. Thankfully, when I join them I have a good beer to drink while I'm there.

Exactly. But are you genuinely happy about the selection or simply relieved that you have something decent to drink? And if your buds didn't want to go there after work, would you go on your own time, with that same selection in mind? Samuel Adams Boston Lager has become the safe choice/fallback beer for many of us in situations like this.

And why wouldn't a bar expand their selection to, at minimum, something locally brewed? If you were a regular (for whatever reason - work proximity, friends, etc) and you requested it, why wouldn't a bar owner at least think twice about trying a log of craft beer or a couple cases of good bottles in the cooler? Foolish not to. I said earlier that craft beer and the people who drink it have a lot of work to do. Why not start at your nearest bar?

Cheers!

[beerking]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Exactly. But are you genuinely happy about the selection or simply relieved that you have something decent to drink? And if your buds didn't want to go there after work, would you go on your own time, with that same selection in mind? Samuel Adams Boston Lager has become the safe choice/fallback beer for many of us in situations like this.

And why wouldn't a bar expand their selection to, at minimum, something locally brewed? If you were a regular (for whatever reason - work proximity, friends, etc) and you requested it, why wouldn't a bar owner at least think twice about trying a log of craft beer or a couple cases of good bottles in the cooler? Foolish not to. I said earlier that craft beer and the people who drink it have a lot of work to do. Why not start at your nearest bar?

Cheers!

Happy about it? No. Glad to have the choice in such a place? Yes. I'll let you decide the relative merits of the difference between happy and glad. ;)

Without friends going there, I would not/do not frequent such a place. I guess what applies more for me is the restausant that only has BMC and SA. That is somewhere I might go (if the food is good or unique), and be "happy" they have SA.

What frustrates me far more than the beer selections at bars is the nice restaurant, with a list of 30 different wines, including white, rose, blush, red, sparkling and even the occasional port or sherry, but only BMC and Heinekin on the "beer list." Why would such a place have a list of so many different wine styles, but only one beer style, to go with thier food. On top of that, I would be most owners of such places could not distinguish between the 4 beers they offered in a blind tasting (well maybe the Heiniken because of the skunk).

If a place like that has good or unique food, then I feel like I am stuck. Often, I either get a wine, or settle for iced tea.

As to why these places won't carry other beers, like local micros, ask the distributors, who make it so difficult for those that want to carry them.

[Sladek]

Originally posted by beerking
As to why these places won't carry other beers, like local micros, ask the distributors, who make it so difficult for those that want to carry them.
Why is this?

Interesting about restaurants with extensive wine lists--I remember in Minneapolis, most fancy-ish restaurants were proud of their wine lists, had a few micros on draught, if you were lucky. I think there's still an attitude of beer (low class) vs. wine (high class). The best places in Minneapolis for beer were at places like Bryant Bowl, ie, grungier bars/cafes.

[beerking]

Originally posted by Sladek
Why is this?



It is a marketing concept employed by AB (and other BMC brewers) called "Total Market Share." The big brewers give distributors and retailers all kinds of benefits if they carry X% thier beer. these benefits are not trivial, try hundreds of thousands of dollars local advertising for distributors in a major metro area. Carry too many micros, or move too many cases of those you do carry, and the AB market share goes down, you end up losing that stuff. Unfortunately, it works all too well.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by beerking
What frustrates me far more than the beer selections at bars is the nice restaurant, with a list of 30 different wines, including white, rose, blush, red, sparkling and even the occasional port or sherry, but only BMC and Heinekin on the "beer list." Why would such a place have a list of so many different wine styles, but only one beer style, to go with thier food.......If a place like that has good or unique food, then I feel like I am stuck. Often, I either get a wine, or settle for iced tea.

I agree. More fine restaurants could do very well with an expanded beer selection. So why don't they? Already said that craft beer accounts for less than 5% of the beer market in the US. So demand is probably one issue. There is something you and I can do about this, though. Ask. Simple as that. Ask. Ask. Ask. But ask the right person. Don't ask the waiter who probably cares little about your lack of beer choice and has little power to do anything about it. Don't even approach an owner most times. They're overseers that probably delegate responsibility of beer/wine brands to a bar manager. That's where you go. And be prepared to ask repeatedly and bring info to back up your request. (Hint: if you're not a regular, your opinion may fall on deaf ears - why stock a product for someone who comes in twice a year?) Ask for specific brands and start small...and possibly as drinker friendly as possible. If an "entry-level" craft beer does well, an establishment will relax a bit and be willing to take on other brands. And feel free to forward any leads to the proper distributor who will then make a professional sales call to further back you up.

Waiting around for uneducated restaurant owners/staff to catch on is pointless. Advocate better beer or stop yer bitchin' (not you personally).


Originally posted by beerking
As to why these places won't carry other beers, like local micros, ask the distributors, who make it so difficult for those that want to carry them.

Whoa! Whoa! Which distributors and exactly how do they make it difficult? Please, get specific. I know some distributors that go out of their way to please even the smallest accounts. Personally delivering 20 cases of obscure beer for that one account on a moment's notice. I understand some distributors focus on core brands that move volume (BMC, Heine, etc) but there are plenty of craft beer distributors that work hard and offer quality to anyone who will give them a chance.

Cheers!

[beerking]

Originally posted by newportstorm

Whoa! Whoa! Which distributors and exactly how do they make it difficult? Please, get specific. I know some distributors that go out of their way to please even the smallest accounts. Personally delivering 20 cases of obscure beer for that one account on a moment's notice. I understand some distributors focus on core brands that move volume (BMC, Heine, etc) but there are plenty of craft beer distributors that work hard and offer quality to anyone who will give them a chance.

Cheers!

We don't have distributors like that in central VA. I personally know of a case when a distributor denied even being able to get a beer (nothing too weird, it was a special from Redhook, blonde or brown, I think) which was seen in thier warehouse the day before.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by beerking
We don't have distributors like that in central VA. I personally know of a case when a distributor denied even being able to get a beer (nothing too weird, it was a special from Redhook, blonde or brown, I think) which was seen in thier warehouse the day before.

Pure laziness. That's when you need to call RedHook directly (I'd assume their brewery in NH brews for all of the east coast) and tell them what's what. They'll get on their distributor and get you what you want or give you another distributor (if your state has more than 1). Unfortunately, there are cases where a craft brewer doesn't make a wise choice of distributor or is wooed by one that can't promote them the way they should. In that case, it can be hell trying to do business in that state, while at the same time trying to get out of your contract.

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

Some distributers also carry the larger micros along with their Macro brands.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Some distributers also carry the larger micros along with their Macro brands.

Like RedHook, which A-B owns a stake in (30%?), and has a distribution deal with. RedHook "benefits" by having the streamlined machine that is A-B, with innumerable outlets. Yet, I wonder if the A-B sales reps are left to pitch RedHook or if RedHook has their own sales staff? The former could result in RedHook being an afterthought sometimes, though with the abundance of RedHook ESB and Widmer Hefe(brewed by RedHook in NH) I've seen around, someone sells 'em well.

Cheers!

[lagermonkey]

a member of my brewclub who works for SA here in Cincy brought some (fresh from the brewery no less) to our meeting last friday night. It was gone before I got to it... dangit!

I had a test batch of the Imperial Pilsener at the brewery in Boston this summer. Tasty stuff!

Doubt it'll make it to Atlanta though...

[beerking]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Pure laziness. That's when you need to call RedHook directly (I'd assume their brewery in NH brews for all of the east coast) and tell them what's what. They'll get on their distributor and get you what you want or give you another distributor (if your state has more than 1). Unfortunately, there are cases where a craft brewer doesn't make a wise choice of distributor or is wooed by one that can't promote them the way they should. In that case, it can be hell trying to do business in that state, while at the same time trying to get out of your contract.

Cheers!

Laziness? Absolutely. We called the Red Hook rep for our region (a guy in the beer club went to HS with him). He got us the beer, at a discount.

Trouble is, in most restaurants, wine buyers are the ones who get "stuck" with buying the beer also. Most of them won't go through that kind of trouble.

[brewcrew76]

Originally posted by lagermonkey
I had a test batch of the Imperial Pilsener at the brewery in Boston this summer. Tasty stuff!

Doubt it'll make it to Atlanta though...

Don't know if this was mentioned but at the GABF Sam Adams had a vote between the Imperial Pilsener and a brown ale to see which would go into production. The Imperial Pilsener won so they will be bottling it and should be distributing it with their regular lineup.

[chazwicke]

That is interesting.... A lager over an ale. Hmmmm

[beerking]

Originally posted by chazwicke
That is interesting.... A lager over an ale. Hmmmm

Not too surprising, though. It is an IMPERIAL lager. Bound to get votes from the big beer maniacs over something as mundane as a brown ale.

Speaking of Imperial lagers, anyone tried the Avery Imperial Oktoberfest? Tastes an awful lot like a doppelbock to me!

[fretlessman71]

Beerking, you and steveh will be fast friends. :rolleyes:

For those curious: The Kaiser (http://www.averybrewing.com/BigBeers/seasonal/kaiser)

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by brewcrew76
Don't know if this was mentioned but at the GABF Sam Adams had a vote between the Imperial Pilsener and a brown ale to see which would go into production. The Imperial Pilsener won so they will be bottling it and should be distributing it with their regular lineup.

Check page 9 of this thread for a press release about this beer. Looking forward to it.

Cheers!

[fretlessman71]

A 24 ounce bottle? Strange...

[beerking]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Beerking, you and steveh will be fast friends. :rolleyes:


He's already helped me out by hooking me up with a commercial brewer who knows how to brew T'mave!

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
A 24 ounce bottle? Strange...

Not really? Most common bottle size in the US nowadays is 12 oz. So a 24oz. makes sense = 2 bottles' worth. I'd ask why not sooner? Why 22 oz. bombers instead of the 24 oz. bottle?

Cheers!

[fretlessman71]

Well, it's not that you're wrong, of course... but wouldn't it cost them more money to make bottles like this?

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Beerking, you and steveh will be fast friends. :rolleyes:

For those curious: The Kaiser (http://www.averybrewing.com/BigBeers/seasonal/kaiser)

quite honestly.... i enjoyed the heck out of this beer. maybe it was the Chocolate Habañero pepper I nibbled on while gently sipping this brew... along with watching the Bengals destroy Da Bears... but it made for a very nice Sunday afternoon.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Well, it's not that you're wrong, of course... but wouldn't it cost them more money to make bottles like this?

Cost who more? Do you think Samuel Adams had these specially made? My guess is it's an existing and underused bottle size - at least in the brewing world. If these were specially made, I'd guess the suggested retail price of $4.99 would be higher. Again, just my amateur guess.

Cheers!

[fretlessman71]

I kinda thought they'd have to - don't they already contract out for their own bottles? They're subtly different from the standard 12 oz. longneck, I thought...

[Insidious Rex]

Im still amused that you can buy Sam Adams in 40's at some gas stations...

[beerking]

Originally posted by newportstorm
Cost who more? Do you think Samuel Adams had these specially made? My guess is it's an existing and underused bottle size - at least in the brewing world. If these were specially made, I'd guess the suggested retail price of $4.99 would be higher. Again, just my amateur guess.

Cheers!

Uhh...I guess we went a little off thread there, but Kaiser is made by Avery, and CO. SA has nothing to do with it.

[beerking]

Originally posted by HarkJohnny
quite honestly.... i enjoyed the heck out of this beer. maybe it was the Chocolate Habañero pepper I nibbled on while gently sipping this brew... along with watching the Bengals destroy Da Bears... but it made for a very nice Sunday afternoon.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I enjoyed it, but didn't think it warranted to be given it's own unique style designation.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by beerking
Uhh...I guess we went a little off thread there, but Kaiser is made by Avery, and CO. SA has nothing to do with it.

Maybe you did, but the Samuel Adams Imperial Pilsner will be sold in a 24 oz. bottle, which is where I thought fret's question came from, no? Response to my link to SA press release?

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Insidious Rex
Im still amused that you can buy Sam Adams in 40's at some gas stations...

And the not so tasty Dog Fish Head Liquor de Malt was in 40 oz bottles too. I disliked this beer very much. Brought back too many memories of my youth in the 1970s.

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by chazwicke
And the not so tasty Dog Fish Head Liquor de Malt was in 40 oz bottles too. I disliked this beer very much. Brought back too many memories of my youth in the 1970s.

Ahh...wasted youth. :D A novelty beer I bought once for kicks. Not horrible tasting, but it wreaked havoc on my body. Not worth a repeat purchase, imo. Yet, every year I'm sure Sam & Co. could sell just about any beer their wacky minds came up with. More power to them.

Cheers!

[Jake]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ratman03

Also, you can't judge a beer for what it ISN'T. SA Boston Lager is what it is, and tell me this: What other beer tastes like it? It's unique. I just get sick of hearing newbie beer geeks dis on a brand because it's not a raging 80+ IBU hop and alchohol monster, or completely out-of-balance west coast pale ale (note: I LOVE west coast pale ales, but some of them are unbalanced). Those high octane styles are great when you're up for it, but personally I can't drink beer like that all the time.


==============================================


I can't afford a whole lot of Bell's beers @ $8.79 + 6% sales tax a 6 pack. To help me get the the amount of beer I like to drink in a weekend and keep within a budget I buy a sixer of SABL. Nothing from AB, Miller, Coors and Pabst is worth drinking. I guess you would call SABL my everyday beer. I don't say that as a putdown to the beer. The price is a little more than the big 4, but in taste there is no compaison.

[fretlessman71]

An "everyday beer" is never a bad thing - we've had threads on the subject before, and SA is a good choice.

[beerking]

I don't have an "everyday beer." Between all the great stuff I can get in the DC area, stuff I pick up on travels, and my own brews, I am always drinking something different.

Last night: Sinebrychoff Baltic Porter; night before: Unibroue Maudite and my own Heather Ale.

Ain't variety fun!!

[Jake]

I have an "everyday beer" only because of money restraints. Some members have stated that the amount of money spent on beer is not an issue for them. If the money was not an issue for me I probably would not drink SABL nearly as much.

I'm thankful that its avaliblable at places I eat that offer BMC and SA.

[beerking]

My homebrew cost less $ than SABL.:D

[steveh]

Dinkel-Acker Pils - $9.99 a twelve.
Spaten Premium - $10.99 a twelve.
Franziskaner Hefe - $10.99 a twelve.
Spaten Okto - $10.99 a twelve.
Capital Annual Brews - $6.99 a sixer.

Just can't get excited about Boston Lager. On the other hand, I see the Winter Brew is out...

S.

[Beer Monkey]

I like their winter brew, was my first keg in my kegerator, had a little issue of it running a little cold, so as time went on the keg began to slowly freeze, and the beer got stronger and stronger, I kicked the keg and went to remove it and it was weighing way to much, I put it back in and thaughed it a bit and had a few pitchers or so left, it was still tasty but very noticibly not as strong.

finally gotten the temperature worked out and been much happier with it, just need to find something else to put in it now,

[steveh]

Home-made Eisbier! ;)

S.

[ratman03]

Originally posted by beerking
The point, at least for me, is the bar that only carries BMC and SA will never carry those great local craft beers. If it weren't for SA, I'd be staying away from those bars, even when all my friends are going there after work. Thankfully, when I join them I have a good beer to drink while I'm there. If it weren't for SA, and Jim's intense marketing, that would not be the case.

Thank you for making my point. I'm sure if it were up to everyone on this board, every pub we went to would have 20 craft brews on tap and local selections, but this isn't reality. It blows my mind that the craft beer market still only represents only a sliver of the pie. Given that, we've still got it pretty good. If this were 30 years ago, we'd have BMC, Schlitz, etc.. and Ballantine Ale to choose from.

beerking, I'm guessing that you, like me, are past the point of being able to stomach drinking macro swill. I was at lunch the other day at a 'corporate' type of restaurant and they had run out of the 3 'real beers' that they carry (SA was one of them). Faced with a choice of BMC, I opted for ice water.

Ratman

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by ratman03
Faced with a choice of BMC, I opted for ice water.

Ratman Way to go, ratman! Show no quarter! Maybe they'll get the hint, having run out of the 3 drinkable beers but having plenty of BMC, right? Lot of beer fans with good taste in that area, I'll wager... :D

[beerking]

Originally posted by ratman03
beerking, I'm guessing that you, like me, are past the point of being able to stomach drinking macro swill.
Ratman

Got that right! My wife and I both have begun to take a kind of perverse delight in running down a list of beers we are interested at businesses that we know carry only BMC. After we exhaust the locals, and then SA, we switch our request to iced tea, often to the amazement of the manager and wait staff!

As a side note, I am running a flavor and taste appreciation session at the homebrew club this weekend. I will be serving "doctored" beers to showcase different flavor components, good and bad, in beer. For this, I needed a case of Bud, in long necks so I could reseal the bottles. At the package store, I found 4 six packs, and placed them in a SA Octo case box, closing it tight before walking out into public where I might be seen carrying BMC!:D

[chazwicke]

I'd reckon about half of us on this board would drink something else given the choice of BMC. It had been over a decade for me at least when I last drank a BMC product but in the interest of science, I tasted that AB concoction of beer and energy drink to report back to this board. I had a few swallows and ended up pouring the darn thing out. I can't even recall what that stuff was called now or if they still make it. A former employee that I was helping out brought by a sixer of the Blue Moon Pumpkin to my office as a token of her appreciation. She know I like "different" beers and she tried to pick something unusual. I won't even drink that. I've given it to some of the other employees here.

[fretlessman71]

I'm still going to try the Blue Moon Pumpkin if I see a single somewhere.

And chaz, you're thinking of B to the E - that red and black can, right? Now they're selling the stuff in 16 oz cans as well. I don't know if that means they were selling so well they wanted to put it in a bigger size or that no one recognized the size of the can for being beer (or anything they'd want to drink), but they're still trying to make it work. And there are other drinks out there that are similar - there's a beer called Moonshot that has added caffeine, and something called Sparkz (I think; memory fails me now) that is similar to a 16 oz. Red Bull with grain alcohol added.

At the risk of being hypocritical, I really can't stand the idea of buying a product because it will make me feel even more messed up - especially something that has thhe potential for such damage like B to the E. But once upon a time, I would have been the first one in line to try this crap; most of us started drinking for the effect and not the taste, and I'm no exception. *sigh*

[beerking]

I'll have to put myself down as the exception. Began with Heinekin Dark in HS (not for the effect, but back then, to an uneducated palate it was a good beer). By college I had graduated to Carlsberg Elephant and Watney's Red Barrel.

As for the Blue Moon, I don't think they make the pumpkin any more, or the abbey ale, or the strawberry cream. IIRC, all of those came out before the White. All made by Coors, but never really admitted. This was early 90s, and seeing one of the big 3 do a beer with flavor was VERY refreshing! I always enjoyed Coors Winterfest, even if it was a little on the weak side. Wonder what happened to that?

Anyone else remember Anheuser Marzen?

[fretlessman71]

Coors Winterfest is still in existence. Had one last year; it was patently bad. Not at all like I remembered.

And I do still see the Blue Moon Pumpkin beer around from time to time.

[chazwicke]

Blue Moon Pumpkin is still around. I've got the sixer right here in the office fridge. But Like I said, a few of the girls in the office may have sampled a couple.

[HopDaddy]

I like their beer but I do think that they have made some mistakes. I am really disappointed with their Sam Adams Light. In the early 90's they brewed a beer called Boston Light Ship that had some character and is still the best light beer that I have ever had. I was unaware that they decided to drop their Scotch ale and I am disappointed. On the East coast they were the first craft brewed beer that was readily available and I will always appreciate that.

[Ales-Stouts]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
BUMP - gonna keep this fresh... looking for an oatmeal porter, or a reason why this would be a bad idea....

Yes, there was an Oatmeal Porter brewed at Frederick Brewing
but it was not one of their brands. I believe it was a contract
brew, received a case of low fills from my friends there in 2003.
Very tasty but I cannot remember the brand name of it. I will
try to find that info next time I stop by.

On another note, I arrived home from work yesterday evening to
find a mixed case of Wild Goose Pumpkin Patch and Blue Ridge
Snowball's Chance on my doorstep! Never tried a Pumpkin Ale so
this will be a first. The Snowball's is similiar to the Snowgoose
but has a higher abv. I enjoy both of the Snow's!

As for the SA debate, I started on my better beer campaign with
SA and Coors Winterfest but moved on to others. And as one
other poster mentioned, I wish SA would bring back the Honey
Porter, especially in the colder months.

[beerking]

Originally posted by HopDaddy
I was unaware that they decided to drop their Scotch ale and I am disappointed.

You can still find the Scotch ale on occasion (always my favorite SA beer). I got some last fall in a special mixed 6 or 12-pack. Had Scotch, Black lager, and something else which elludes my memory.

[HarkJohnny]

Originally posted by beerking
You can still find the Scotch ale on occasion (always my favorite SA beer). I got some last fall in a special mixed 6 or 12-pack. Had Scotch, Black lager, and something else which elludes my memory.

ack!

I never got to try this and even though i don't drink it that often it's one of my fav styles of beer.

[Derekt2]

I did not try it but I was in NY on Friday and I saw a 22 oz. bomber of Samuel Adams Imperial Pilsner at the Whole Foods in Chelsea. Never heard of this before. Anybody else?

[newportstorm]

Originally posted by Derekt2
I did not try it but I was in NY on Friday and I saw a 22 oz. bomber of Samuel Adams Imperial Pilsner at the Whole Foods in Chelsea. Never heard of this before. Anybody else?

It's a 24 oz. bottle. For more info, start on page 9....of this thread:

http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1112&perpage=15&highlight=&pagenumber=9

Cheers!

[Derekt2]

Thanks.

Did you see my summary of Friday's trip to NY?

http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8871

[newportstorm]

Yes, glad you found some good beer in NYC.

Now do yourself a favor and grab one (or more) of those SA Imperial Pilsners. Worth every damn penny I paid.

Cheers!

[fretlessman71]

Originally posted by newportstorm


Now do yourself a favor and grab one (or more) of those SA Imperial Pilsners. Worth every damn penny I paid.
Which was how much again? I'm going to have to look for it - sounds wonderful!

[Derekt2]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Which was how much again? I'm going to have to look for it - sounds wonderful!

The one I saw in NYC was $4.99.

[fretlessman71]

Finishing off a bottle of SA Imp. Pils. as we speak. Had half last night, rest today.

Fan-FREAKIN'-tastic. :D

It's like a brighter IPA with noble hops, or a pilsner with a HUUUUUGE amount of malt. And at $5 a bomber-plus (24 oz. bottle), it's the deal of the century!

Might just be the best beer SA has ever made.

[ratman03]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by HopDaddy
[B] I am really disappointed with their Sam Adams Light. In the early 90's they brewed a beer called Boston Light Ship that had some character and is still the best light beer that I have ever had.

Yes, Lightship was very good for a light beer. Personally, I think Sam Light BLOWS. It tastes like watered-down Boston Lager with a bad aftertaste. Why didn't they just continue on with Lightship -- or rebrand the same recipe??? Oh well, I don't drink light beer anyway!

Ratman

[ratman03]

Originally posted by fretlessman71
Way to go, ratman! Show no quarter!

I just sat there and looked at the taps... Bud, Bud Light, Coors Light... I mean, what's the point?!?!

Ratman

[fretlessman71]

I don't mind the Sam Adams Light at all, personally. Yeah, there's not that much to it, but sometimes that's fine with me. Especially when it's 105° outside like it was last summer! :eek:

[chazwicke]

I'm not fond of any lighgt beer that I can think of. But I do like some British Milds which can get down in Alcohol levels.

[HopDaddy]

In addition to be being the best tasting light beer that i have ever had, LightShip was under 100 calories. They managed to get a decent hop flavor into a light beer. Their new light is horrible.

[Bryant]

There isn't much that can be said that hasn't been covered, but I find SA a quality beer. It isn't one of my favorites, but I get in the mood for a SA Boston Lager from time to time. The same can be said for Harp Lager and it is also a macro beer and one of my favorite lagers. I prefer the more exclusive imports and my semi-local micro (Sweetwater) as well as Anchor etc. more often than not, but I don't have a problem with SA getting bigger as long as the quality is there.
I typically try not to be abrasive as I respect others' opinions, but I will make an exception this time. Someone mentioned SA's commercials and advertising strategy. I would like to know why it offends anyone if they have 20 somethings in their commercials ? I happen to be 37 years old, married with a Son and not much of a bar/party person. Having said that, on occasions I do like to "let my hair down a little" (quite literally in fact) and have a few drinks with my friends. I personally don't care if they have monkeys drinking the beer on tv. If they don't show it during a football game or on Discovery/history chasnnel, I probably won't see it anyway. Maybe it isn't one of the more "mature" commercials out there, but who really cares and if any do.... why ?


Bryant

[HarkJohnny]

I FINALLY GOT IT!

I was cruising Kroger Saturday morning and just happened to see a Sam Adams Brewmasters 12 pack. Curiosity struck because I normally only see the standard 12 packs of seasonal or BL. It has the Scotch Ale in it! Hallelujah! and the "customer voted" Brown Ale. Haven't had them yet but looking forward to it.

[fretlessman71]

Wow - I thought they weren't going to make the brown ale for anyone once they put the Imp Pils into production. I'll have to go take a closer look at my local paint store!

[chazwicke]

I liked the imperial pils. Gave me a new respect for SA. I usually only drink their beers when they are the only thing available. I think they are a lot better than Yuengling though.

[HogieWan]

Corkybsteward hooked me up with the holiday sampler since I can't get it here. It included two SA BLs. I generally like it, but don't gravitate towards it often and normally choose the ale over the lager. I decided to have it paired with a homemade pizza the other night (I make the dough and the sauce - I'll eventually make the cheese, too) it was a PERFECT match. I was floored.

BTW, the rest of that sampler was great. Very surprised by the cranberry lambic.