defining Halcyon

[msk]

Can anyone tell me what Pale Malt Halcyon is?

I figured on using 2-row, but perhaps it is like a marris otter? Or does that mean extract? Or is it something else?


http://www.beerdujour.com/Recipes/Jamil/JamilsDryStout.htm

[BigEd]

It's a British pale malt. Halcyon is a variety of barley, as is Optic, Maris-Otter, Pearl, Golden Promise, etc.

[msk]

Thanks a bunch. I will see what I can find at the store.

[danno]

here's what NB (http://www.northernbrewer.com/grainmalts.html) says:

"Fawcett Halcyon Pale Malt. 2.5-3.0° L. Another pale malt we offer, Halcyon is a barley variety that was bred from Maris Otter and Sargent. Tends to produce a 'sharper' wort than Maris Otter."

take Jamil's advice. there's a good reason he was the AHA homebrewer of the year. IMHO (emphasis on the "humble" part...) you could sub Maris Otter if Halcyon isn't readily available...

[msk]

I guess that 2-row is out. It seems that is most of the reason the first batch was too sweet.

I have to get it right on my third try. I already missed the birthday that it was supposed to be a present for. Thanks for the education

[Grog]

Originally posted by msk
I guess that 2-row is out. It seems that is most of the reason the first batch was too sweet.

What do you mean by this?

[msk]

My parents liked the old Guiness, so I was supposed to make them something to replace it. My first attempt was more like a porter in flavor than 'dry stout' as that recipe is named. There was no bite [as my one buddy said, it had no 'kick' which I am interpreting to mean that it had no bitterness to cover the fact that it is a low ABV beverage] and it was not like drinking ash such as a dry stout should be.

I could analogize with something like it was more like drinking grape juice than dry red wine.

It could have been my mashing or lautering technique, but the grain flavor was not 'sharp' like the halcyon is described

Wow. . . brings back memories of cigar flavor naming rants I have read

[BrewDog]

I would suspect the mash temp (go for a lower temp like 150 or so), and your yeast strain. WLP007 has a malt emphasis like WLP002, but it attenuates about 10% higher, leading to a drier, crisper finished beer. (It is also high alcohol tolerant.)

HTH-

[Grog]

Could also have been not enough Black Barley. The ash character comes from the high kilned black malts. If you post your recipe, you might get some better direction so you can get where you want to go.

[msk]

Thanks for the yeast suggestion. I will try the WLP yeast.

My recipe. . . it was sort of a hillbilly makeshift of the Jamile recipie

7# US 2-row because I did not know the difference
2# carapils because I got the wrong thing by not paying attention
1# ash, err roasted [steeped]

90 minute mash at 140

Safbrew S33 ale yeast [which I am going to replace for my next batches, which is too bad, as I have 275ml of the stuff in a flask now, which was rinsed from primary and secondary and combined]. . . it was supposed to be great attenuation stuff, but it seems that no one ever makes recipes for it

I guess it is time to mature past the standard issue, universal yeast

[HogieWan]

That s33 is bad at dropping out - try using us-56. It has a cleaner profile, good sedimentation and good attenuation.

If you are doing AG, why was the roasted barley steeped?

[msk]

Originally posted by HogieWan
That s33 is bad at dropping out - try using us-56. It has a cleaner profile, good sedimentation and good attenuation.

If you are doing AG, why was the roasted barley steeped?


I guess no one ever mentions it except in extract brewing, so I just never read of anyone mashing it.

[Grog]

You didn't get that dry roasted/ash flavor with 1# in a 10# recipe?:confused:

[msk]

It seemed more like a porter, kind of sweet and mellow instead of heavy and ashy. Possibly it was the combination of 2-row and carapils making it mellow. . . maybe I steep poorly. I will mash it next time.

I think my mashing efficiency sucks, also. I only got 1.034 out of my APA, though I look back and see that I sparged too fast.

I just need more practice

[Grog]

What was your TG? 2# of Cara-Pils is a bunch, but it is not supposed to contribute sweetness, only body and head retention, but at that rate who knows.

[BitterRat]

Originally posted by msk
Thanks for the yeast suggestion. I will try the WLP yeast.

My recipe. . . it was sort of a hillbilly makeshift of the Jamile recipie

7# US 2-row because I did not know the difference
2# carapils because I got the wrong thing by not paying attention
1# ash, err roasted [steeped]

90 minute mash at 140

Safbrew S33 ale yeast [which I am going to replace for my next batches, which is too bad, as I have 275ml of the stuff in a flask now, which was rinsed from primary and secondary and combined]. . . it was supposed to be great attenuation stuff, but it seems that no one ever makes recipes for it

I guess it is time to mature past the standard issue, universal yeast
Ok, so after reading and rereading this thread, seems there are 2 different questions. First, the Halcyon thing seems to be answered, however, I have never noticed a "sharpness" to Halcyon malt, so I don't know where NB came up with that! I went through a 55LB sack of that malt and never noticed that coming thorugh. It is a wonderful malt to work with though!
The next pertains to your recipe. You say you're trying to make something like the old Guinness. Looking at the recipe, I'd say first get rid of the carapils, that is not good in a dry stout, and use flaked barley instead. And I'll bet the carapils is the reason for your sweetness! 1 lb of roasted barley is probably right on. Again, I don't relate "ash" flavor with roasted barley, ash seems more appropriate with black patent than RB.

[msk]

Thanks for the pointers.

No gravity readings were done at that point, as I did not get the hydrometer until later. None of my beers ever seemed to have head except the two extract batches.

I will more closely follow the recipe next time

. . . of course, I did see 'chocolate roasted wheat' yesterday at the HBS