Casks for homebrew.

[barley ben]

Does anyone know where you can get casks from. I'm not familiar with the sizes and names for them. I don't want a big one which is all I seem to be able to find at my local HBS. When I search for them, all I find is stories about them and pubs that have them. Any help on the names of the different sizes and where to get them would be great. I know a while back someone, possibly English, gave the different names for the different sizes on one of the threads. I'm looking for one a couple buddies and myself could finish in a weekend without it turning into a drunk fest at my house.

[quantum24]

i remember looking online for wood casks and found several homebrew stores that sold them in a variety of sizes, they are listed under wine making supplies however. (btw, the places i found listed sizes by the gallon)

[barley ben]

Yeah but the smallest size they seem to have is 5 gallons. I can't drink that in a weekend and don't want to waste a whole batch if it goes bad.I was hoping to find something like 2 or 2.5 gallons. Just thought I would be fun to cask condition part of a batch. See what the difference would be between that and bottled side by side.

[quantum24]

ill look into and see what i can come up with

[quantum24]

austin homebrew supply has 1 and 2 gallon american oak casks for $80 and $90, there were others that sold like sizes but i cant remember where i saw them. btw, im not sure how long you have been into homebrewing, but if it is something that you love you could consider getting a kegging system. the vast majority of "cask ales" are not served from wood casks but rather from SS kegs. it would be easy to set up a gravity fed cask ale system from a corny keg. when i get a kegging set up this is what i am going to do. hope this helps. if you want more info ill try to help

[Fast_Eddy]

Something to consider about casks and homebrew is that cask conditioned beer should be consumed fairly rapidly because the liquid is displaced by O2 and not CO2. So unless you're gonna drink all five gallons within a week or so you might want to reconsider.

[Beerconnoisseur]

...and you can always use oak chips, if your main reason for cask-conditioning is the flavor that is imparted to the beer. I know it works great for IPAs, among others. There are plenty of oaks to choose from (American, French, and Hungarian) at MoreBeer. You can probably guess the link by now. :D

[barley ben]

So unless you're gonna drink all five gallons within a week or so you might want to reconsider

Thats why I'm trying to find something like a two gallon one. I guess it would be for a special event where it will be drank in an evening and me finishing it the next day if need be. And as far as the keg thing, unfortunatly I don't have anywhere to put a setup yet and I figure if I'm gonna do the cast thing, might as well go all out and use a wooden one. I'm not planning on doing it for every batch. Just every now and then for fun.

[YamahaXS]

#1 (http://www.mrsuds.net/homebrewwine.html)

#2 (http://www.cellar-homebrew.com/barrels.asp#Oak%20Barrels)

#3 (http://www.homebrewshop.com/wine.html#accessories)

fyi: google search terms = "wine barrels homebrew new sizes"

[barley ben]

Thanks for the info. I was actually talking to the owner of me LHBS today and he told me when I want to dish out the money, he can get me a 2 gallon for $89 i think it was. I'll do it sometime. Think it would be completely awsome to be entertaining sometime and knock open a cask beer that I made. Don't know why I'm so hooked on the idea. Hopefully it will be worth my time and money. If not, I can always cut it in half and give it as a gift. Thats one really expensive flower pot!!

[Redbird Fan]

are casks re-usable?

[MagTheGrate]

I have a couple of questions to add to this thread.

How do you sterilize something that is porous?

How do you server the beer from the cask? The ones in the links above only had the one hole in the top.

-Mag

[Beerconnoisseur]

You can keep the cask on its side, attach the bung there, and turn as needed to get all your beer/wine out.

I'd imagine cleaning/sanitizing an oak barrel would be quite difficult, which would most likely make it a one-shot deal. But you can try scrubing it out with harsh chemicals (like sodium hydroxide), making sure to rinse well afterwards.

Of course, I don't have any cask conditioned ales lying around my house, so take this last with a grain of salt. :)

[Tom C]

I would imagine with the high cost of them they are reusable somehow some way, but I have never had the fortunate experience of owning a barrel. If you would like to purchase one for me as a gift, I would be happy to try it out and work out all the bugs for you. Then report back to you so you can determine if you would buy one for yourself.

Tom C

[quantum24]

wood casks are reusable. i think you burn sulfer strips inside the barrel in order to sanitize/sterilize. you also need to keep it filled with liquid between uses so that the staves stay moist and leak free.

[toneyc]

It says right there on the page (link #2):

New barrels will require treatment with citric acid, soda ash, and sodium bisulfite.

:)
Toney.

[Pappy]

Uh Oh... yet another gadget/method I'll have to try. What styles of beer would best benefit from cask conditioning?

[Bruno_78]

I've tried many different styles of cask conditioned brews. doesn't seem like there is a style that wouldn't benefit.

I'm also looking into trying this. Has anyone given it a shot yet?

[beerbastard]

Be careful using such small casks with your homebrew. The small volume of liquid in the cask means that you will have a much greater concentrated oak flavor in your beer. If you leave that small a volume of beer in a new oak cask for any length of time it will be undrinkable. Unless of course you enjoy chewing on oak.

You can serve a cask stored beer over a length of time (a week or two) by using CO2 rather than room air to displace the beer that you are dispensing.

Casks can be reused as long as you maintain them properly. They cannot be allowed to dry out. When a cask dries out the oak shrinks allowing gaps in the wood and the rings to slide. Once the cask leaks you might as well use it to plant hops.

[Acataleptic]

I've had the pleasure of serving cask beer from a 2 gallon American oak barrel for seven odd years now. I worked in the wine industry for 16 years and know a thing or two about barrels, so I grabbed a bit of information about barrel care from the web and made a few modifications. Note this will be one of many ways to handle a wood barrel as every winemaker has their own special techniques. This can be a general guide to keeping a wood barrel fresh & sound and hopefully answer a few questions that are popping up in this section.

Good luck and enjoy!


Wood Barrel Care

USING YOUR BARREL FOR THE FIRST TIME
A brand new barrel, particularly a smaller one, will add a lot of oak very quickly to a beer. Unless you want to have the oakiest beer you've ever tasted and potentially sacrifice a batch to the over-oaked Gods, you'll want to steam the barrel and extract the surface oak flavor from the inside of the barrel.

Fill the barrel with boiling water and leave unbunged. Leave the hot water overnight then empty. Notice the dark color of the water and smell the oak extract. You can repeat this procedure as often as you wish and it is a good way to avoid over oaking your beer while the barrel is still new. Now you are ready to fill the barrel with your beer, good luck.

HYDRATING A BARREL & CHECKING FOR LEAKS
Fill about 25% with boiling water, bung tightly and rotate the barrel. As the water cools, internal pressure increases and any leaks bubble like liquid on a flat tire.

It is not uncommon for a new barrel to have a few small leaks which usually seal up by themselves as the wood expands. If all leaks have not sealed within a day, a longer soaking is needed:

Method - Citric/Meta Soak
1. Fill the barrel half way with cold water, add citric acid (2 tsp) and potassium metabisulphate (1 tsp) mixed separately in hot water. Keep your nose away from the metabisulphate when mixing the solution. You'll smell why regardless.

2. Fill the barrel with water and bung

The barrel should be topped up daily with water. Do not fit the bung too tightly as this will cause a partial vacuum and "seal" leaks that have not actually stopped. When the barrel shows no more signs of leakage, empty and rinse several times until you smell of nothing but wood before filling with beer.

CLEANING BETWEEN FILLS
A barrel which is being refilled repeatedly with beer will do fine with a thorough rinsing between batches as follows:

Method - Hot water rinse
1. Rinse with hot water under pressure to break up or dissolve any sediment.

2. Rinse again with cold water.

Never add bleach or any cleaners to the barrel or you'll have a permanent flavor component. If you think the barrel smell funny or needs further cleaning between batches do another Citric/Meta Soaks as specified above.


STORING AN EMPTY BARREL
The very best way to maintain a beer barrel is to ensure it is never empty of beer!

An untreated, empty barrel will quickly begin to produce moulds and bacteria. Replacing the air in the barrel with an atmosphere high in SO2 will effectively eliminate this problem.

Method 1 - Short term storage (Up to 2 weeks)
1. Rinse the barrel and drain, bung down for 2 days.

2. If you need to extend for a few more days continue to rinse the barrel every couple days, but smell frequently to guarantee freshness.

Method 2 - Long term storage (Longer than 2 weeks)
1. Add citric acid (2 tsp) and potassium metabisulphate (1 tsp) mixed separately in hot water. Keep your nose away from the metabisulphate when mixing the solution. You'll smell why. Fill the barrel with fresh cold water and bung tightly.

2. Store in a cool, slightly humid location

3. Replace solution every 4-6 weeks

4. Rinse barrel thoroughly with clean water before re-introducing beer. The barrel should smell of nothing but wood


_______________________

Drink local, drink Independent!

Listening to: Nick Lowe 1978 Jesus of Cool

[O2 Mash]

Wow, I'm all for hard work, but I think I'll stick with my cornies ;)

[Bruno_78]

I, on the other hand, think this would be the ultimate step in homebrewing. This has to be the coolest think since I started brewing.

[danno]

I'm with O2. Maybe when I retire...

[Acataleptic]

I can't believe a Whitbread Pin cask was up for auction on ebay. I wouldn't even think of buying old wood unless I could inspect the staves. But the buyer most likely bought it for show for a cool $77.75.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=118&item=3742064613&rd=1

Drink local, drink Independent!

[Richard English]

Most English brewers no longer use wooden casks since they are expensive to make and there are now few coopers left (the apprenticeship for a cooper is seven years - the longest there is). However, there are still certain advantages to the wooden cask: it doesn't dent; it lasts for many years; it can be repaired; it keeps the beer at a more constant temperature - and it looks wonderful.

There is actually a British society known as the Society for the Preservation of Beer from the Wood (SPBW) but they are very much a minority group. The beer tastes the same whether it's from wood or metal casks; it's the brewing and conditioning that matters.

If you really want to buy a cask, a secondhand one from a brewer will probably be OK, just as long as you know its antecedents - but don't try to use a cask that's been used for anything other than beer.

[brewmonkey]

I would have to disagree that the beer tastes the same coming from either. When oak is used it has vanillan as well as some other properties that will be absorbed by the beer. It is one of the reasons oak is used. The taste is also different depending on the type of oak (phrench(sic)/American) and the way the cask was treated ie-charred, pitched or metabisulfites.

I have used both steel firkins and barrels to age my beers, the difference is night and day.

[Richard English]

Although purists suggest there's a difference I don't believe it's significant for cask-conditoned beer - which is what we have been discussing.

Beers (and wines and spirits) that are aged for months or years in the cask will in time aborb some of the flavour of the cask, especially if it is new or has been used to store some other drink.

But cask-conditioned beer stays in the cask for just days and, once the cask has been used a few times for the same beer type (as is usually the case) then its contribution to the flavour of the beer is minimal.

[Acataleptic]

Of course, I would never blindly buy a used cask expecting to use it. I would hope, maybe cross my fingers, but in the end the wood would tell the tale. The barrel could be shaved on the inside and help remove any unwanted micro-flora, but if it was used for any liquid besides ale I'd pass on it faster than a speeding bullet.

I posted on the SPBW Bulletin Board and was told to talk with the cooper at Northgate or Theakston, seems like the only two practicing coopers in all of the UK. Any relevant information on locating a traditional cask will be posted is this message http://www.realbeer.com/discussions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4416

I'd appreciate any leads or information!

Drink local, drink Independent!

Listening to: Wilco 1999 Summer Teeth

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by Richard English
Although purists suggest there's a difference I don't believe it's significant for cask-conditoned beer - which is what we have been discussing.

Beers (and wines and spirits) that are aged for months or years in the cask will in time aborb some of the flavour of the cask, especially if it is new or has been used to store some other drink.

But cask-conditioned beer stays in the cask for just days and, once the cask has been used a few times for the same beer type (as is usually the case) then its contribution to the flavour of the beer is minimal.


I see where you are at.

Here in the US if something hits wood it is generally going to stay in it for sometime. Thus it would have tie to develop from the wood as well. My minimum time for something in wood is 90 days and I have gone upwards of 1.5 years for some of the barleywines and imperial stouts.

If we are going to be serving it from the handpump chances are it is in a firkin purchased through UK Brewing which seems to be one of the few sources in the US for obtaining Anagram engines.

[Acataleptic]

If you want to skip the hassle of maintaining a wood barrel I just heard that UK Brewing (http://www.ukbrewing.com) will be receiving a shipment of stainless PINs (5.4 gallons) in 2005 priced at $150. BTW They also have everything you need in the way of cask supplies.

Drink local, drink Independent!

Listening to: The Who 1971 Who's Next (Deluxe Edition)

[Richard English]

Quote "...I just heard that UK Brewing (http://www.ukbrewing.com) will be receiving a shipment of stainless PINs (5.4 gallons) in 2005..."

Yes. That's the smallest traditional Imperial size (4.5 Imperial gallons) - just right for a small party. For teetotalers' parties some brewers produce what they call a mini-pin - just over two Imperial gallons - though I understand they are not very popular.

[Heycock]

Barley Ben,

I've been on the same quest as you. I'm sure you're doing it for the traditional taste but if you want the look of an oak barrel it will take a little work. But if you're after just the traditional taste of real cask ale, I've found that the small 5 liter german kegs work, with out using the now normal CO2 cartridges of course. Just fill the glasses with beer and let air enter the keg. It takes a little handy work if you want to take care of it like a traditional cask. Making hard and soft spiles, finding a place with correct temperature, etc...

http://www.realalefestival.com/aboutreal.html

This is good site to get the idea of how to take care of real ale.

[Richard English]

Quote "...the now normal CO2 cartridges of course..."

I think we need to define normality here. It would not be normal to introduce extraneous carbon dioxide to an English cask-conditioned beer.

I have become aware that some US home-brewers seem to believe that a chemical plant to rival ICI's seems to be comsidered the norm, but in the UK all good beers are brewed and served without externally applied carbon dioxide.

This afternoon I have been on a little pub crawl and have drunk three pints of Thirsty Ferret and a pint of King and Barnes Sussex - and neither had any relationship with a carbon dioxide cylinder - and every pint was wonderful.

It would seem that Heycock agrees with me as regards carbon dioxide adulteration.

[Heycock]

I completely agree that extraneous CO2 is not and should not be a part of traditional cask conditioned ale. I was referring to the use of CO2 cartridges with the 5L german kegs used in homebrewing. And by avoiding the CO2 use, homebrewers can get a step closer to making cask conditioned ale in small volumes.

I think many homebrewers are taking the idea of oxidation a little overboard. In the case of cask conditioned bitters the little bit of oxidation adds to the beer and alters the hop aroma in a positive way.