A-B hops

[barley ben]

So I was just courious(and no, I'm not trying to clone it), but does anyone know what kinda hops macros like A-B use for their fizz. I'm pretty sure that they use an extract since you really can't smell any. But it has to come from somewhere. Probably some crappy generic hop that they figured out how to mass produce.

[brewmonkey]

AB uses a variety of hops and IIRC has hop farms all over the world to grow them. I doubt they use some "cheap" hop and infact spend a lot of money on R&D to imrove them. It is through alot of the work they have done this century that we have the hops we have to brew with. They fund a lot of the programs in brewing sciences and development.

[brewmonkey]

Some interesting words on AB from a very well respected figure in the industry.

http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/ab_trip.html

A quick snippet on their website about their hops (http://www.budweisertours.com/docs/brewkett.htm)

Hops, the cone-shaped clusters of blossoms from the vine-like hop plant, are the "spice" of beer, imparting their own special aroma, flavor, and character. At Anheuser-Busch, we use only the choicest imported and domestic hops, hand selected from the world's finest fields in Europe, Washington, Oregon and Idaho. Our commitment to quality hops is demonstrated by our ownership of hop farms in Bonners Ferry, Idaho, and in the world-renowned Hallertau region of Germany.


The above was taken from one of their distro websites. (http://www.greatbaybud.com/ingredie.htm)

So well we wont be found anytime soon quaffing a cold or any temp AB product, bashing them without all the facts just seems wrong. I know several people within the AB organization and they are great brewers (yes they are brewers, even having sat for the MB exam) who care tons about quality.

I for one do not care for the products they make, but I care less about them for their marketing practices and strong arms tactics they have been accused of using in the past.


Whats funny is, scroll to the bottom of this page (http://www.anheuser-busch.com/overview/abi.html) and tell me what brewing company logos you see! You going to stop drinking their beer too? I doubt it!

Barley Ben- This is no way a dig at you. It is a general statement to all those who I have heard bash the AB people for years about the product they make and they all use the same rhetoric. Their beer is not bad, it is just not what we drink.

[barley ben]

So well we wont be found anytime soon quaffing a cold or any temp AB product, bashing them without all the facts just seems wrong.

That is the very reason I posted this thread. No I don't have all the facts. I thought that I read that many large companies use extract. Seems to me that they might have because it seems that it would be a good way to keep consistant bitterness in their constant flow of beer. As far as the brewers go, I never said anything to bash on them. I'm sure that they have to be really good to be a brewer for a company that large. I just think it is a shame that their skills aren't used more openly by the companies. They could really spead some great beers all around the world. Unfortunately, they have to stick to the corperate guidelines and I guess you could say, waste their talents. Just my opinion!

[steveh]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
Some interesting words on AB from a very well respected figure in the industry.

http://www.allaboutbeer.com/homebrew/ab_trip.html
Their beer is not bad, it is just not what we drink.

The paragraph in Ray's article that is most interesting is:

"By all measures, this beer reflects the current American beer geek's understanding of the India pale ale style. With any luck, you'll be able to purchase this beer some day. For now however, it is just an experimental beer -- one of many that may never see the light of day, no matter how sublime."

And the article is copywritten 6 years ago. Have any of these beers actually seen the light of the liquor store overheads? I know that there have been discussions elsewhere about some new A-B products being available around the country, but the reviews here have been much less than favorable.

There's no question that A-B has the where-with-all and equipment to make good beer - they just don't choose to do so. Sure, they make consistent beer across the globe, but it's not a very interesting or flavorful consistency. Flavor being a big part of my definition of a good beer.

And the A-B Redhook connection (and now Widmer) has been discussed plenty around here, but nowhere have I seen any evidence that A-B has a hand in its brewing.

S.

[brewmonkey]

Some of the large and even smaller breweries do use extracts for the reason you state and some others that are not widely known. Pre-isomerized hop extract does not skunk when it comes into contact with UV light. Using it allows brewers to save on amber bottles and go for the clear ones. MGD is one off the top of my head. In my time in the Army this was the beer usually stocked in the fridges of the barracks, I do not remember it having the skunky character.

Oil is expensive to use and difficult to work with, the main reason you do not see it in widespread use.

The brewers employed by the large guys are for the most part very talented, but in some cases they are overeducated (PhD's) who do not care so much about the flavor components as they do the final product being "perfect" in a scientific sense of the word. The ability to make every single batch taste the same as the last is a tough thing indeed.

My biggest beef I would say with AB is the use of the
"beechwood" aging process they claim. While they certainly use it in Bud, it is not for flavor or anything of the sorts. It is for nucleation sites for the yeast to floc to allowing a faster conditioning period which in turn allows for the beer to be packaged quicker. Even saving one day per batch would equal several tens of thousand barrels a year in production increases.

[steveh]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
I for one do not care for the products they make, but I care less about them for their marketing practices and strong arms tactics they have been accused of using in the past.

One of those strong-arm tactics I've heard of A-B using (again, no solid eveidence - just hear-say from people in the business) falls right into this thread. I once heard tell of A-B buying out large lots of hops from farmers at unbeatable prices, just so that other brewers couldn't use them to make good beer (or have to pay more if they wanted to, I guess). The hops would rot because A-B couldn't, or wouldn't - as the story goes, use them.

I would love to hear any evidence to back some of this. Even if it's not true, I still don't consider Bud, Bud Light, or Michelobe quality beers.

S.

[brewmonkey]

That would certainly be a problem.

Even at the pub level being able to secure the best ingredients is no longer a problem. A good majority of the suppliers allow the brewery to lock into contracts to purchase what they need. For things like hops it was a great deal as you could go to the central facility and actually pick your hops. If you got a contract for say Cascade, for the length of your contract you would only get from the lot you selected (there may have been 10-15 to choose from) and not a mix or what was left after the contracts were filled.

[wortchillergoal]

I know this thread is on the older side but after looking at it again I hqve to reply. I don't know that I agree with brewmonkey about the quality of the beer they sell, Iam not saying he is wrong as we all have our own points of view. Yet I do agree that in some ways that AB helps the brewing industry. Also, because I play hockey with some high ranking people from the local AB brewery I have had the opportunity to sample some beers in the research mode. Their brew masters can put out very good, tasty beer. They chose not to market this and they are making money.

On the down side they do practice some under handed techinques in my book. Does anyone remember how they bought off Night Line and attacked contract brewing. They made it seem like beers that were contract brewed could not be the same or of good quality. Now how about that beech wood aging statement. I was told by an AB rep that they simply fin with beech woodchips. He got really upset when several knowledgeable beer people maintained that practice did not qualify as aging. My experience in the area in food service has shown that they will go to great lengths to cut the small brewers throat. AB took over a local beer tasting done at our zoo. It used to be one of the best beer events that I attended. Now AB has control and set booth prices so high that many small brewers can't afford to be present at this event. So for the most part you get AB products with a smidgen of microbeers.

I appluad their research and some of their contributions but I wiash they would clean up their marketing and leave the small guys alone. Let them have at Coors not Sams and Rouges of the brewing world. This is the soapbox verses 100-113 according to wortchillergoal.

[brewmonkey]

I don't know that I agree with brewmonkey about the quality of the beer they sell, Iam not saying he is wrong as we all have our own points of view

Not saying quality as in I would drink this, but quality in terms of being free of major flaws/defects. Consistant, you could throw it under a scope and one batch would look like the last.

I too have tasted many of the products they just wont sell, and have had several interesting conversations with Mitch Steele on that subject. It is just not the way the big guys want it to move, so sad too.

I also happened to live near the St. Louis AB plant for several years and spent probably to much time hanging around it when I was home on leave.

[wortchillergoal]

Originally posted by brewmonkey
Consistant, you could throw it under a scope and one batch would look like the last.

Yes, I will agree with that hands down. They go to great lengths to make sure that the Bud in California tastes just like the Bud in Vermont.

[MagTheGrate]

The brewers at the macro brewereries are actually QUITE skilled and talented.

They don't make crap beer because that's all they are capable of makeing, they make it because it sells.

-Mag

[brewmonkey]

Originally posted by MagTheGrate
The brewers at the macro brewereries are actually QUITE skilled and talented.

They don't make crap beer because that's all they are capable of makeing, they make it because it sells.

-Mag

A good majority of them are highly trained (PhD, Heriott Watt, ABG, UC Davis etc...).

While I am very well versed in brewing, sometimes talking to them hurts my head.:D

[wortchillergoal]

Originally posted by brewmonkey

While I am very well versed in brewing, sometimes talking to them hurts my head.:D

I can believe that after seeing some technical reading material relating to brewing. You don't have to be a rocket sciencist or brain surgeon to be a great brewer at that level, just a little smarter will do.

[chazwicke]

It is known that AB can buy the finest ingredients and has very skilled brewers. It is also known that they brew beer that is tasteless because they want their product to "Offend no one". I have heard that the IBU level for Bud is 10 and the actual taste threshold for hops is 12 IBUs. They have taken it to the lowest common denominator to attract the widest possible audience. After all, what is the most commonly consumed beverage in the world......WATER. Which also has little taste.