Harp and Guinness in Ireland

[munich1]

Yesterday I had a brief conversation with a young woman who had just returned from a trip to Ireland. She stated that the people of Ireland hardly ever drank Harp, and that they didn't much care for Guinness either. She also said that alot of people seemed to be drinking (and liking!) Miller and Bud. Could it be that she was visiting non-traditional pubs, or could some of this be true? I have never been to Ireland, so I can't comment firsthand. She also stated that she herself was not a fan of Miller or Bud.

[chazwicke]

Bud is the best selling beer in Britian even being positioned as a premium brew and thus more expensive. Don't know about Ireland but I'm betting a fair amount of Guinness gets supped. I'm not a fan of Harp though. Some of our Irish guys can fill you in.

[munich1]

I had no idea Bud was so popular over there. Since it is probably brewed somewhere over there, do you think it tastes like its American counterpart? Or could it (hopefully) taste better?

[hockeynut]

It has been a few years since I made the trip but at the time Buttweisser was the beverage of choice for the pub crowd. Seems that drinking "imports" is fashionable there as well. I chatted up a couple of people there and the concensus was that they would down a couple of native pints and then hang out with the "imports". I had a couple while we were there and it was the same swill as in the states, not sure if it was brewed there or not but definitely the same crappy, tasteless stuff.

Just my experience.

[Bloodaxe]

I don't know if the Bud in Ireland is brewed in England- the Bud in England is- but the stuff in England tastes exactly the same as in the USA, although at 5%ABV it may be stronger?
As to why I was drinking Bud on my last foray to the USA, well it was in the last few days of my visit there, I was skint and Bud is cheap- it's also crap! A poor excuse indeed! I've never drank the bloody stuff since!

[noby]

munich1,

Unfortunatley there's a lot of truth in your friend's 'revelations'
Harp has a limited popularity, but is still readily available. Guinness is still very popular, but I guess depending on the type of bars/pubs you frequent.

Alas, as in the UK, Bud and it's cronies are the most popular beers here.
Guinness brew Bud under licence (and Carlsberg, amongst others) and with their marketing power, and market domination they can ensure that every pub in the land (with very few exceptions) have a Guinness and a Bud tap.
Heineken took over the Murphys Brewery in Cork, and afaik brew coors or miller under licence. Heineken seems almost equally as popular as Bud.

Thankfully, there's seems to be a new/renewed popularity in European beers. A lot of pubs, even down in my neck of the woods are starting to stock the likes of Budvar/Erdinger etc. Anything that's not BMC is a step in the right direction in my eyes. English ales are finding their way onto supermarket shelves too. Hopefully it's only a matter of time before they find their way onto pub shelves (I won't hold my breathe for casks)

[sean_0]

It's Beamish who brew miller here in cork as well as fosters and beamish stout. Heineken brew Murphys and heineken and maybe one or two more.

Stout is still extremely popular here and in the pubs I frequent I'd say over 50% of draught beer is stout (though it's about 20% in the more mainstream 'pack em in and play loud crap music' places). Miller isn't very poular especially on draught and it's between Bud and Heineken for the most popular lager/light beer.

Guinness have almost a complete monopoly over the whole country but we're a bit luckier here in Cork because Beamish and Murphys had a tied house system (similar to UK) until the 70's and so ensured their own survival and preserved some diversity of beers available.

[Bloodaxe]

I've always been rather puzzled as to why real ale hasn't really caught on in Ireland, after all the Irish are as fond of beer as the rest of us and I would have thought a few entrepeneurs would have had a go at starting breweries, so why?

[sean_0]

I wish I knew. I was at the franciscan well easter festival this weekend which featured beer from every microbrewery in the country. Only 4 cask beers were present: the franciscan well's shandon stout, Hilden's halt, College green molly's stout (both Belfast), and the fantastic Messers Mcguire's Yankee Golden Ale.

The last was really the only one worth getting worked up about and yet I hear that it's only brewed for festivals where enthusiasts like me will show up and drink it. It's not available in their pub in Dublin. There was a start up brewery in the 80's in Dublin called Deasey's (I think) which brewed real ale but it went belly up fairly quickly which probably put off a lot of other would be entrepreneurs. Basically Irish people are in general neither aware nor interested in real ale and I don't see that changing any time soon . . . . though I sincerely hope that I'm wrong!

[steveh]

Originally posted by Bloodaxe
but the stuff in England tastes exactly the same as in the USA, although at 5%ABV it may be stronger?

I'm sorry it tastes the same, and it's not stronger than it is here (might even be less so - think Spud is 5.5 here), so that's no consolation either.

S.

[chazwicke]

All in all, I think Guinness being what it is, makes drinkable beers. I like several of them. If AB / Bud would even make one beer that was at the level of Guinness then the world would be a better place.

[Curry]

Budweiser has a huge facility outside of Dublin. When I made my most recent trip (1998), I was dringing Guinness and Smithwicks, and whatever regional brew I could find. I asked myself the question, "Why would I travel this far and drink a beer I could get (notice I said "get" not "like") at home?"

[steveh]

Originally posted by Curry
"Why would I travel this far and drink a beer I could get at home?"

Which, sad to say, is probably a big part of the mindset of those in Ireland and GB drinking Spud - it's a novelty, just as Guinness is to the uninitiated over here.

S.

[Bloodaxe]

Originally posted by steveh
I'm sorry it tastes the same, and it's not stronger than it is here (might even be less so - think Spud is 5.5 here), so that's no consolation either.

S.
It might actually be 5.5% over here too- I've not looked too close at a label recently- I knew it was 5% or so anyway. Anyway, whilst we have many fine ales here we still have plenty crap- usually brewed by the National Brewers- which I try to avoid too.

Strange though. Every time I'm overseas (In the US, Belgium, France, etc. the lastr few years) I seem to be able to drink quite a large amount of the local beer which is often at 5% plus and feel reasonably OK but get quite pie-eyed at lower % beers at home! Can't really work out whether it's because you're on holiday you drink differently or that you want to get a little drunk to blow off steam after work!
And after all this talk of beer I'm toddling off to the boozers!

[MeridianFC]

There are a lot of factors you could point to for the beer situation in Ireland, I'm not speaking as an expert mind, but some things to consider are:

1. Ireland's size. It's a small country just over 3m (congrats on the positive population growth there). Whilst the Irish make up for their relatively dimunitive size by being ferocious on the pints when required, the base population to have a extrememly varied drink culture is lacking. You could point to Belgium, but they're over 3X as big and at more of a European crossroads, as opposed to Ireland's far end of Europe (sorry Iceland) loacation.

2. Ireland is, in the end, conservative. It's a strength and a weakness. One of the things that allowed stout to surivive and thrive was the tenaciousness with which the Irish held on to the Pint of Plain. Also until recently the population was definitely older. The "celtic tiger" and all has seen more young Irish staying in Ireland or returning from abroad. Some of this probably causes the rebellion against stodgey stout culture with the "glitzy youth of the moment hip" crap lager drinking (and alcopops).

3. As with the US, it'll take time for there to be a significant call for good craft brewing. The first steps have been taken with some casulties along the way (so long Dempsey's we hardly knew ye). But there is good beer about; Porterhouse, Biddy Early, etc. The situation in Ireland reminds me a bit of what's going on in Holland; Gigantic Multinational everywhere but a slow steady sprouting of craft is underway after years in the wilderness.

I'm sure those on the ground will correct any fault in my logic.

FWIW pretty much everywhere I've gone in my travels I see crap beer being swilled by the masses. You can't pin it on just Ireland, England, etc. Just like here you'd be right in saying there's no (good) excuse for it.

[steveh]

Originally posted by Bloodaxe
I seem to be able to drink quite a large amount of the local beer which is often at 5% plus and feel reasonably OK but get quite pie-eyed at lower % beers at home!

I thought the majority of beers around the world averaged out at 5.5 ABV, and a quick look at the RealBeer chart shows Spud at 5, Fullers ESB at 5.9, and Fullers London Pride at 5.0; Paulaner Helles at 5.5 and Pilsner Urquell at 4.3. I've heard Richard (and now you) talk of drinking beers at lower alcohol as if they're the norm in England, but aren't they pretty much around 5% abv?

But I've also experienced the vacation lack-of-buzz phenomenon as well, even having Salvator at the Keller!

S.

[Bloodaxe]

I suspect that it's more a "culture" thing than anything else. Most of the beers I drink are usually in the 3.4% to 4.9% range. It's not as though there isn't anything stronger available- cider is often a lot stronger, for example- more that we like "session" beers.I'll usually consume 6-7 pints in an evening. I won't expect a hangover, nor will I be illegal to drive the next day. So it's a reasonable night out without too much trouble in the morning!
Most stronger beers I find are often more difficult to drink. 'Old Peculier' is rather heavier on the stomach, for example. i think personaslly most English type ales actually taste better at the lower gravities but usually get more undrinkable as their gravity increases. Whilst I love Abbot Ale, for example, I rarely drink it all evening, althoughit is one of the better strong ales. Lager can be brewed much stronger than bitter or mild but still taste much the same, ale generally doesn't in my experience and I suspect it's largely due to the fermentation process.
Beer tonight- Timothy Taylor's Landlordx2
Mansfield Mildx2
Jenning's Cumberland
Ruddle's County-1&1/2.
And I should be able to put a day's work in tomorrow!

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Bloodaxe
more that we like "session" beers.I'll usually consume 6-7 pints in an evening. I won't expect a hangover, nor will I be illegal to drive the next day. So it's a reasonable night out without too much trouble in the morning!


I agree with this and also what you have said in regard to most real ales being just fine in the lower ranges.

I had eight beers over a 6 hour period last Monday afternoon / evening.
One was a Bourbon Stout and several were a wonderful Maibock that clocked in in the upper 6%s. When I got back to the office, (Someone else had driven) I got out my alcosensor and did the test. I was .11 so I had to wait in the office for a long while until I was under the legal limit. I can drink 5 or six in a session in a pub and probably only barely notice.


Also a nice selection that you had this evening. Tim Taylors is one I particularly enjoy. And when I was over last month I had the Ruddles on cask and it was good as well. I remember it being fairly bad from the can years ago. I guess they are now owned by Greene King? And I do like Abbot Ale too.

[noby]

Meridian, you know us better than we know ourselves.

I think our size/population (heading towards 4M now) is a big factor in our lack of variety (Barring Murphys/Beamish in Cork we don't really have regional beers)
And, as you say, we are at the fringe of europe, and a little isolated , I guess.
Coupled with this(and THE major factor) the fact that Guinness is so big (a macro brewery plonked on our little island) it just dominates the market. They have the power to pretty much do as they please, and their, er, heavy handed approach has put a lot of smaller brewers out of business (or else they just buy them). Yes, Guinness make good beer, and for that we should be thankful, because no matter what they make, they will be the major player in the Irish market.
I wouldn't go as far as comparing them to Tony Soprano, but even as a publican, you go against them at your peril (on the flip side, when they're your friend they will bend over backwards for you, to a point).
They can decide what goes on in the Irish market, and when they changed from cask to nitro, that was it for cask.

You're spot on with the whole celtic tiger thing too. It was similair to the Yuppie period of the 80's: lots of money around, especially in the technology industry, and people got very materialistic, and more-so than before the 'import lager' and alcopops became very trendy.


So what's happening now?
Well the Celtic Tiger ran away to join the circus. People are starting to turn back to more traditional goods. The most popuplar market on our town is the farmers' market, where people sell home grown/home made goods (meat, seafood, poultry, apple juices, breads etc.) All these things were losing out to processed foods. Now there's a farmers' market in almost every town in Ireland (the way it used to be).
Hopefully this trend will happen with beer. A lot of the older generation are moving from Guinness, which they've drank all their life, to the likes of Porterhouse/Carlow stouts. It's more like the stout they used to drink. People are starting to seek out good beers in the off-licence, instead of drinking Bud down the pub. It's still very much a minority, but it's a start.

[sean_0]

But there is good beer about; Porterhouse, Biddy Early, etc.

Unfortunately, Biddy Early wasn't there at the beer festival last weekend and when I asked one of the other brewers there why, he claimed that they are either out of business or on the verge of going out of business.

I asked the same guy why the new tax laws haven't resulted in more microbreweries starting up (In Jan 2005 tax on microbrewed beer was halved) and he said that the only result of that legislation was that those existing brewers were able to stay in business. Apparently not many of them are doing well and most are struggling to keep their heads above water. It's a pretty depressing situation as far as I can see.

Still the porterhouse seems to be doing well, and there's always a crowd in the Franciscan well here in cork.

[Richard English]

Most cask-conditioned beers here will vary from Milds (from about 2.7 to 3.3; Ordinary Bitters - about 3.2 to 3.8; Best Bitters - about 4.0 to 5.0; Old Ales and Special Bitters from 5.0 to 6.5. A few specialist cask-conditioned beers will be stronger, but that's unusual.

Some people try to kid themselves that stronger is better but to my mind good flavour is better. Welton's Pride and Joy is a 2.7 abv bitter which one can drink all day without getting more than midly euphoric - but for all that it's a very well-flavoured bitter.

Most seasoned drinkers here will drink large amounts of weaker beer, rather than getting silly on a few pints of some Kamikaze ale.

There is a greater variety of strength in bottle-conditioned beers and these tend to be stronger - some of them dangerously so. Fuller's 1845, my favourite, is around 6.5% but it is very easy to drink four bottles at a sitting (a 500ml bottle is almost exactly a US pint). You will feel just fine - but the breathalyser won't like you.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by noby

People are starting to seek out good beers in the off-licence, instead of drinking Bud down the pub.

Don't let the pub culture die though. That is one of the things I love best about the UK. The pubs. We don't have the same sort of thing here. It is sad.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Don't let the pub culture die though. That is one of the things I love best about the UK. The pubs. We don't have the same sort of thing here. It is sad.

Before it becomes an issue, noby is not from the UK. I agree though, Irish pub culture as its similiar though ever so slightly different British cousin's, is a rare joy. Something I view with great longing when I'm in some souless box that's been open for all of 8 months and will be gone in another 4, with all the personality of an unlaundered sock.

Sorry bit of rant that.

Further to Irish beer culture. It's a shame to hear about Biddy's, though I'd heard the owner had passed away a while ago so maybe it's not a surpise. It'd be a damned shame to lose that brewery though. They produced cask, limited though it be, and in my opinion the best Irish Red going. The potential for great, interesting, and new brewing to come from Ireland is there; great natural resources (sans hops I guess), good water sources, knowledgeable consumers and manufacturers, but the will has to be there from the drinking populace. As noby noted I think the swing is towards that direction. Again I think the situation in Holland is very similair, Heineken/Amstel on the one hand and T'Ij, Kongingshoven/La Trappe, etc. on the other to compare with Guinness/Diaego v. Porterhouse , Franciscan Well, Biddy's, etc.

I feel in some way to blame. Many folks come to Ireland and demand old and traditional, which is fine, but refuse to accept that the culture is vibrant in growing and not stuck in some "Quiet Man" and Cucuhlain time warp. Don't get me wrong jealously gaurding history is important, something we in the States sometimes lose track of (I'm reminded of an excellent Eddie Izzard sketch <Briton doing American accent> "This building is fifty years old! Fifty! ............tear it down!"</Briton doing American accent>) but you've got to accept some measure of progress and I think having every tourist who visits the Isles only looking for a pint of Guinness is not doing the brewing scene there any favors. That's my take anyways. I have an interesting thought on this buy I'll reserve it for another day (it's a bit Fintan O'Toole and relates to some changes in Scottish brewing oddly enough).

As to British session strength beers, I've weighed in heavily in favor in the past and will do so again. I've had many a pint of 3.8% beer (Deuchars anyone?) that's as flavourful as any 5%+ micro. I've been much the better then morning after too. I'd imagine the lesser amount of CO2 ingested has been part of that equation also.

[Richard English]

Although many people do not realise it, there are significant differences between pubs in the various countries of the British Islands. The typical "British" pub as copied by Disney and others, is most like an English pub. Of all the countries probably Welsh pubs are the most like English pubs, although Scottish pubs have changed somewhat over the years to become closer in style. Most now have hand pumps which was rare indeed 40 years ago.

Northern Ireland never impressed me with its pubs although I did find a Hilden's outlet when I was there some 20 years ago, and that was a good drink. Mind you, that was during the political unrest and wandering around Belfast late at night was not to be recommended.

The countries which are not part of the UK - of which Ireland is the largest - vary greatly one from another. The Isle of Man has had a strong real ale tradition for many years, even having (until EU legislation banned it) its own equivalent of the Rheinheitsgebot.

The Channel Islands for years have not been all that good - although there are a few bright spots such as the Lamplighter in St Helier. Sadly I believe that The Tipsy Toad brewery has been taken over by Anne Street brewery - a fizz-beer brewer.

In my experience Irish pubs tended far more to be mixed businesses, with the pub and the village store often sharing the same premises. I confess, though, that it's been a tidy few years since I was in the Republic and things might have changed. When I was last there, there was no real ale - Guinness was the only thing that was drinkable..

[steveh]

Originally posted by MeridianFC
Many folks come to Ireland and demand old and traditional, which is fine, but refuse to accept that the culture is vibrant in growing and not stuck in some "Quiet Man" and Cucuhlain time warp.

I watched "Waking Ned Devine" last week for the first time in a long while, and it was the first viewing for my GF. I love the story, culture, and message that movie tells, and the pub scenes are about the best!

And before anyone says it, I know it was filmed on the Isle of Man...though I still don't know why.

"Last Orders" is another culture-laden movie in a similar vein, with a good underlying pub theme.

While I've experienced both cultures in person, these two flicks really bring good memories back.

S.

[MeridianFC]

Originally posted by steveh

"Last Orders" is another culture-laden movie in a similar vein, with a good underlying pub theme.

While I've experienced both cultures in person, these two flicks really bring good memories back.

S.

Brilliant movie.

[chazwicke]

To lose the pub culture in any of these countries would be a shame. We lack a real culture like that here in the states. There are a few last bastions of the neighborhood bar or the corner bar (mainly in the northern climes.) The flight from the cities over the last 50 years and the introduction of convient take out, refridgerator sized cans and bottles had done the most to shut down the need for public house in the States. Sad to say. I'd hate to see either Irish or British pubs go the way of the dinosaur. Take home beer is a huge threat and I seen some statistics that say more and more people in England are drinking at home.


(And I know Noby is not from the UK;) )

[MeridianFC]

There's also the car. Don't forget the car. Oh sure we've got wide open spaces (well not where I live) but still.

[Richard English]

Take home beer is a huge treat and I seen some statistics that say more and more people in England are drinking at home.

One reason for this is the better availability of good bottle-conditioned beer. I live just 20 yards from the pub and could have had Fuller's London Pride or Harvey's Sussex this evening. But I chose to drink Goldminer at home and watch my choic of TV rather than the pub's choice.

But had I not been able to drink Goldminer or a similar good quality beer then I'd have gone to the boozer.

In the USA, where relatively few local bars have good beer, but where good bottled beer is now readily easily obtainable, the temptation to stay at home must be all that much greater.

[Sladek]

Originally posted by Bloodaxe
I suspect that it's more a "culture" thing than anything else. Most of the beers I drink are usually in the 3.4% to 4.9% range. It's not as though there isn't anything stronger available- cider is often a lot stronger, for example- more that we like "session" beers.I'll usually consume 6-7 pints in an evening.
Definitely a culture thing, similar to the pub culture in Germany (specifically Bayern) and the Czech Republic. Prazdroj is only 4.3%, but still considered by many a more premium or upscale beer, and it's harder to drink many of them compared to the 10-degree, due to the higher gravity, I would imagine. But there are plenty of Prazdroj pubs with a healthy (or Cirrhosis-inducing) supply of Stammgaeste drinking until closing time. This was totally fascinating to me living there, as Americans have nothing like at all.


Originally posted by MeridianFC
I feel in some way to blame. Many folks come to Ireland and demand old and traditional, which is fine, but refuse to accept that the culture is vibrant in growing and not stuck in some "Quiet Man" and Cucuhlain time warp. ...but you've got to accept some measure of progress and I think having every tourist who visits the Isles only looking for a pint of Guinness is not doing the brewing scene there any favors. Agreed. I consider myself a beer tourist first and foremost; everywhere I go, be it a city in the States of somewhere in Europe, I always want to find and drink local beer, go to local pubs/brewpubs.

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by Sladek

Agreed. I consider myself a beer tourist first and foremost; everywhere I go, be it a city in the States of somewhere in Europe, I always want to find and drink local beer, go to local pubs/brewpubs.

My primary reason for travel.

[Bloodaxe]

Yes, i would hate the end of the pubs here in the UK! I rarely drink at home, I try to be selective when I do but I'll rarely have more than a couple of pints or so. Bu, yes, I love the cultural thing. I've been out tonight with a few mates, been to 6 pubs all within walking distance- although I did have to get a bus to and from the town- talked a load of shite, drank beer, and have arrived home in a melllow mood! Bloody well deserved after a hard week's work! And I've got to go to work tomorrow, got a piano to shift amongst my other tasks for the day.
Overall- pub culture- couldn't live without it, personally. I suspect that also goes for my Irish friends, so I don't think it's quite going the way of the dodo! The breweries though seem to have a bit of a problem however in just leaving pubs alone- constant tinkering, grandly called "refurbishment" is my bugbear.

[Bloodaxe]

So mellow it gained an extra 'l'!

[noby]

I don't think the pub culture is dying here. Far from it. But, in recent years there has been an upturn in the 'drink at home' culture. As Richard said, the variety on offer at the off-licence is a factor. Also price of drink is a main factor.

While I would hate to see any publican go out of business, they chose to blame the introduction of the smoking ban for this. While it was a factor too, only the smarter publicans got their house in order to ensure their business continued.

The lack of variety in some of our pubs is also caused by a certain major Irish brewery. When you serve their beers they pretty much do everything for you: supply you with free gas, service your equipment, clean your lines. Right down to giving you free kegs if you serve one of their 'pub spies' with a good pint.
The flip side of this is if you think about stocking another beer that they're not happy with, then you suddenly, or threatened that you will, lose all of these priveliges. It happened my local pub in the last year, when they contemplated getting in a (semi-decent) lager to compete with the bud/heineken they already served.

In fact, beer from the brewery closest to the south-east region (Carlow brewing) is not available in any pub in my town, because their stout would be in direct competition. The only places you can get their fine stout is in one restaurant or the off-licence.
So the bully-boy tactics are encouraging the stay at home drinkers. Then again, they don't care how or where they sell the 'famous' black stuff, be it in a pub or in a can.

The day I can go in to my local, or any pub in my town, and order a pint of O'Hara's,(or Porterhouse beers, or Franciscan well beers) I'll be happy.

[Bloodaxe]

It does seem that in Eire that the "certain Irish Brewery" does have an unfair monopoly- rather sad. I know how I would feel if all I could drink on Tyneside is Newcastle/Scottish Courage's swill.
The main reason I go out for a drink to the pub is to socialise, whilst drinking some decent beer, hopefully. Drinking at home isn't really for any reason but to drink, so as I say I rarely drink much then.
Supermarket and off licence prices are a problem. You can get a 4 pack of lager or bitter for £3. That's £3 for approx three and a half pints- hard for the pubs to compete price wise! That's for swill of course, decent bottled beer tends to be pricier. The breweries presumably sell canned beer to off licences/supermarkets for far less than they do to pubs, or the mark up in pubs is far more. I'm not sure which I've only ever been on the customer side of the bar! I suspect as ever supermarkets get a hefty discount anyway.

[noby]

Obviously I love going to the pub, for various reasons, socialising being one of the main ones. And I understand the publican has a lot more overheads to cover, and to a point you are also paying for the atmosphere/social setting, so it's unfair to compare the prices. But, the reason I would drink at home is to try beers I cannot buy in the pub; not just because they are cheaper. Also , you can always have a couple of friends around.

I saw a break down of prices before for a keg of beer. Roughly 20% goes to the brewery.
The other 80% is divided between the publican and the duty/tax, which is pretty high in Ireland, over 40% I think.

So for an average (outside Dublin) price of 3.50-3.60euro per pint, the publican gets 2 euro or so.

A lot of super markets sell their B/M/C range of beers for 1 euro a bottle (typically 24 bottles for 24 euro). Taking away the duty, and the supermarket mark-up, you can see (and taste) it's being made for pittance.

[Richard English]

Originally posted by noby

The lack of variety in some of our pubs is also caused by a certain major Irish brewery. When you serve their beers they pretty much do everything for you: supply you with free gas, service your equipment, clean your lines. Right down to giving you free kegs if you serve one of their 'pub spies' with a good pint.
The flip side of this is if you think about stocking another beer that they're not happy with, then you suddenly, or threatened that you will, lose all of these priveliges.

This is one of the marketing methods used by all the major breweries - and it's very difficult for the smaller brewers to counter.

Why do you think just about every bar in the USA has an illuminated Budweiser sign? Because they think it's a wonderful work of art? No. It's all part of the protection racket (sorry, I mean freely entered into commercial agreement) between the mega-breweries and the small and relatively powerless pubs.

[noby]

Originally posted by Richard English
This is one of the marketing methods used by all the major breweries - and it's very difficult for the smaller brewers to counter.


That I understand, Richard. But when you have such a large and powerful brewery in such a small country the effect is somewhat magnified.
As Sean said, Murphys and Beamish were lucky to survive into the eighties, and only takeovers from other multi-nationals ensure their survival today. They are Guinness' biggest 'home grown' competitor. The next biggest brewer in the country is the Porterhouse bars, which are based in Dublin/Bray. So, for most of the rest of the country, Guinness have a free reign.

I like Guinnes, don't get me wrong, and I'll often drink it when I'm in the pub, because it's usually the best on offer. But, the reason it's the best on offer is less to do with the quality of the drink , and more to do with the fact that they've limited the competition.