Exactly how does cask conditioning works?

[guildofevil]

Hi All,
Does anyone know exactly how cask conditioning works?

When I put one of my beers into a plastic keg and prime it, it produces gas naturally, pressurizes the keg, and becomes carbonated, as some of the CO2 dissolves into the beer.

As I serve the beer, the pressure drops and I have to top up the CO2 from an external source.

If I were not to to this, I would have to allow air into the keg, which would mean the beer would loose carbonation, and spoil quickly.

I know that cask conditioned ale does not use an external CO2 source, so do they let air into the cask?

If so, why does it not go flat as a pancake and spoil?

Séan

[newportstorm]

Yes, air gets into the cask, which is why most casks are served quickly (within days). Some pubs may put a blanket of gas on top of the beer to extend its life by a small margin.

Limited life span is but one reason why real ale hasn't caught fire here in the US. Many of the mega beer bars that keep 50-100+ kegs on at any one time (and can't do an admirable job keeping those fresh) probably would have disastrous results with casks - unless demand at that bar or in the city was high.

Cheers!

[chazwicke]

Newport is right. Many places here do a poor job with many taps so they would most likely do worse with cask beer which requires special handling. Many places I go usually have one beer on cask but I always worry that not enough people in the US even know to ask what is on cask when they go into a good beer establishment. I am seeing more hand pumps appear as time goes by but it will take a lot longer for the word to spread and make it viable.

The beer drinking culture in the USA is much different than in some European countries. Thanks to Prohibition mainly. Most beer is consumed off premisis in the United States. Only something like 10% is draft sales. before Prohibition the opposite was the case and most beer was consumed in bars and saloons on tap. After prohibition and as a way to ease back into promoting beer, the brewers tried to appeal to the housewife. They put it in containers that would fit neatly into a refridgerator and began to advertise to women differently. One of the arguements for prohibition had been that there was public drunkeness and fathers were not at home because they were off in the saloons. So the brewers realized that they needed to promote home use to soften the repeal. Ever wonder why they had the "steinie" bottles up until the 1950s? It was because they were shorter and would fit in the fridge better. (Yuengling used them until the 70s). Cans fit even better. and the "convient" six pack packaging was also promoted.
So we lost the Pub Culture and began drinking at home rather than out for the most part and that is why most places cannot suppoert the use of cask beers as they must be consumed fairly quickly.

[Sladek]

Nice post, Chaz. I've always wondered about our "long-neck" beer culture. Many bars don't even have beer on draught! But most people I know who like to drink beer never go out. Very very different from the Czechs, for example, who view bottled beer as "dead".

I think price is an issue, as well. It's so freakin' expensive to go out and have a few, especially if it's good beer. I try to hit happy hour at good bars and brewpubs, but if it ends at 6, it isn't easy. We went to a restaurant that had bottled Summit Ale for 4 dollars! I said, no way. Draught, yes. Bottled for four bucks?? Screw that.

[Dextolen]

Has anyone used oak chips or those oak sticks used for wine fermenting to mimic the way casking effects flavor?

I was thinking of doing an IPA this spring with Oak chips/sticks to mimic the barrel ride to India.

[guildofevil]

Well, that answers my question.

I was wondering if there was some trick to it, but it seems to be down to keeping the cask cool and drinking it fairly quickly.

I have just ordered a plastic sparkler tap, to fit my plastic barrels. Apparently it's adjustable. I'll get more if it works well.

http://www.hamstead-brewing-centre.co.uk/itm00577.htm

Oak chips might be a good idea too. You've got me thinking Dextolen.

Séan

[chazwicke]

In the old days before TV and mail folks in Europe congregated at the Public Houses and that tradition evolved. Here it is different and not only might price be an issue but so are the drunk driving laws. Back in the 70s when I was a young 'un we went down to DC frequently. Whether it was to see a band play or just to hang out. Now most of those establishments are long gone. I gotta say, I won't drive when I've had more than 2 or three. I use Metro or have a ride if I'm going out for beer.

Prices can be stiff too but that is less of a deterrant for me. I was at a place on Saturday with a buddy. we had two 8 inch personnel pizzas and 9 beers between us. The bill was 75.00. I left a 25.00 tip so it cost 100.00 for the evening. The beers were great. Cask Loose Cannon, draft Anderson Valley Winter Solstice, Bear Republic Red Rocket and something or other from Rogue. We had 16 taps to choose from and an awesome selection of Belgian and craft bottles. This was the second weekend in a row that I visited this place as the wood Oven pizza is very good and the beers are phenominal. They brought us new beer menus each time a beer kicked and it was replaced with a new one. I was sorry to find the Coniston Bluebird and Pliney the Elder had kicked before we got there. This place is the exception and make a huge effort to take good care of their beers.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Dextolen
Has anyone used oak chips or those oak sticks used for wine fermenting to mimic the way casking effects flavor?

I was thinking of doing an IPA this spring with Oak chips/sticks to mimic the barrel ride to India.

The barrels used for beer were coated ( I can't think of the name of the junk they used) on the inside, so traditional cask beer would have NO wood flavor to it. Now, that doesn't mean you can't add oak to your brew if you like that flavor

[stronk]

True, Hogie: 'cask' does not mean 'oakey', and the two are not necessarily related.

In addition to what has been said above about what cask ale actually is, there is one very important factor still unmentioned. The handling of cask ale is timed very carefully. Serving begins before all the priming sugar has been used, so that the product that comes out of the tap is still actively fermenting. It is partially that and partially the effect of the soft spile (a wooden peg that stands between the beer and the outside world, which lets air through at a slow rate and hence can keep the pressure in the cask slightly above atmospheric) that cause cask beer to be softly carbonated and not completely flat. It also means that, whilst oxygen does get into the cask during serving, its spoiling effect is nowhere near as fast as, say, leaving a pint of beer out in the open air.

Cask flavour can be seen as a combination of the early effects of oxygen on a beer and the fresh taste of beer still actively fermenting. If you want to age cask beer, you wait until after ageing to add priming sugar and then follow the normal cask procedure.

Personally, I prefer cask because of: the really fresh compounds that have reacted away in kegged and bottled beer, the fact that it's usually kept at cellar, not fridge, temperature and the very low carbonation level, which makes it easier on the throat and stomach and easier to taste the beer itself.

[zoom6zoom]

More good information on CAMRA's website, of course.

Link (http://www.askifitscask.com/)

[chazwicke]

Originally posted by HogieWan
The barrels used for beer were coated ( I can't think of the name of the junk they used) on the inside,

Are you referring to pitch?




Stronk, Check your PMs please.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Are you referring to pitch?


that's the word I could find

[steveh]

...where's Richard..?

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by guildofevil
Well, that answers my question.

I was wondering if there was some trick to it, but it seems to be down to keeping the cask cool and drinking it fairly quickly.

Well... In the true sense of cask-conditioning and tending to a "live" beer, a CC ale will traditionally come to a pub pre-ready to serve. A good publican will tend to the cask in his cellar until it's right to serve. I'm not sure how often this occurs any more these days, but the CAMRA site probably talks about it in-depth - I'm about to go look myself.

S.

[Sladek]

You know guys, when I lived in Prague and got a little bit into the Stammgast scene, I learned that even caring for a regular keg system is important! I got the sense that the Czechs were really tuned into that. And I can say that I tasted the difference! People were regulars at small seedy little neighborhood pubs because the Prazdroj/Urquell was so damn good. One pub, At the Hippo, (U Hrochu) prided itself on its Prazdroj. And that's all people did there! I've had it at other places and it tasted like crap. So when I see a bar in the U.S. with so many taps, I think, sure, it's a great selection, but are they taking care of the system? And how old is the beer?

I don't think we're ready casks. I can't see it working. I wonder how they do at brewpubs; I always get a cask when I go to Town Hall in Mpls, and I see others getting it, but a lot of people drink their guest beer, the damn cider.

[chazwicke]

Cask ale in the US is on the rise to be sure but it will never reach the level of the UK in terms of availability. And I've had many American intepetations that were not quite there yet. But some have been spot on. (And one awesome lager - Rauch has met my expections of it's German ancestry). I see more and more places having one hand pump. I only hope that the care and quality of the real cellarmen or barkeeps follows. It will take a decade or two but I think we will have reasonable cask availability. But never in every bar. It will be something that "better" places have.

[guildofevil]

I was in Cork city a little while ago and managed to spend an evening in the Franciscan Well, the local brewpub.

They do one cask a week, tapping it on Friday. The beer is always a cask version of one of their own beers and when I was there it was the turn of Shandon Stout.

I have never had a cask conditioned stout before and I must say, it was great. It occurred to me that stout is absolutely perfect for cask conditioning, as low carbonation and higher temperature suit it really well.

Damn. It's 10:15 AM and I'm getting thirsty talking about this.

Séan

[steveh]

Originally posted by guildofevil
It occurred to me that stout is absolutely perfect for cask conditioning, as low carbonation and higher temperature suit it really well.

Nitrogen dispensing of Stouts got its rise when brewers decided to bypass the rigorous methods of cask-conditioning and training publicans in its care. The nitro carbonation supposedly replicates the smoothness of natural carbonation produced in CC. So, in a reverse observation, you're very correct that CC is absolutely perfect for Stout!

S.

[noby]

I wasn't aware that the Franciscan Well did a cask; at least they didn't the last time I was there.
I think I'm due another visit.
They do a nice Red that might be well suited to cc too.

I'm not a huge fan of nitro, and it seems to be spreading too. We have a limited ale range here (mainly reds) and they all seem to be getting the super-cooled nitro treatment too.

[Derekt2]

The coating of the barrels you guys were discussing is paraffin -- waterproof and prevents direct contact between the ale and wood.

[guildofevil]

Noby hit the nail on the head there.

I'm not a big fan of Irish Red as a style anyway, but when you over-chill a beer and flush it with nitro, you kill what taste it had.

The porterhouse is the only pub (actually 4 pubs) in Dublin which does cask conditioned ale and, as much as I like TSB, it is only one beer. I want more.

This is why I am trying to get as close to cask conditioned, as I possibly can, with my own beer.

I have a nice little setup planned, but I have yet to get the budget and space/décor considerations past my long suffering better half.

If I can pull it off, I will have two 23l barrels on tap at all times.

[HogieWan]

Originally posted by Derekt2
The coating of the barrels you guys were discussing is paraffin -- waterproof and prevents direct contact between the ale and wood.

That seems easy to use. I may have to start looking for some old (smallish) barrels.

[Sladek]

Originally posted by guildofevil
I'm not a big fan of Irish Red as a style anyway, but when you over-chill a beer and flush it with nitro, you kill what taste it had.
Amen!

[Derekt2]

Originally posted by HogieWan
That seems easy to use. I may have to start looking for some old (smallish) barrels.

Here's the problem. Barrels aren't usually lined w/paraffin or otherwise sealed. Instead it's wood (charred or not) in direct contact w/the beverage. Small barrels -- 2, 3, even 5 gal -- have enormous surface to liquid ratios and over-oak beverages very, very quickly. I would never consider something smaller than 10 gal which is exactly why I never took the plunge.

[HogieWan]

What I was saying is that parafin should be easy to use and I could seal the barrel myself.

[Derekt2]

Originally posted by HogieWan
What I was saying is that parafin should be easy to use and I could seal the barrel myself.

Yep, guess I glossed over that. Let me know how it goes. I might try it myself (something about barrel-aging a Flemish red in a Coke keg just doesn't seem so... right).

[brewcrew76]

I attended the Living Ale fest in Chicago this last weekend where they had 37 beers on cask. Several of us noticed that the IPA's on cask tended to be a lot less hoppy than the same beer on CO2 where as the Stouts tended to taste better on cask. Not sure if the CO2 brings out the bitterness in the hops or why this is.

Also, Two Hearted (last year's champ) was dethroned by Flossmoor's X-IPA. Even the Flossmoor brewer agreed the X-IPA tasted better on CO2 than cask. The 2 hearted tasted the best I have ever had it on cask and it is on cask at a lot of places in Chicago. Here were the top 3. They are all somewhat local brewpubs.

Flossmoor Station - X-IPA
Old Capitol Brew Works - Vanilla Bean Stout
Piece - Dysfunctionale

[Sladek]

Originally posted by brewcrew76
I attended the Living Ale fest in Chicago this last weekend where they had 37 beers on cask. Several of us noticed that the IPA's on cask tended to be a lot less hoppy than the same beer on CO2 where as the Stouts tended to taste better on cask. Not sure if the CO2 brings out the bitterness in the hops or why this is.
Hey Brew, that sounds awesome! Living Ale Fest? I love it! Is it regular?

Anyway, I agree with what you say about IPA cask vs. keg; up here in Mpls at Town Hall I've had their IPA on cask, and it seems less bitter, but the hops taste more flowery and pleasant. I bet the lack of CO2 lessens the bite. I would imagine CO2 changes the flavour profile of beer. I'm sure others here could answer this.

[brewcrew76]

It is a yearly festival (this was the 2nd year) that has replaced the Chicago Real Ale fest. It is at the same time each year. It is put on by the Chicago Beer Society:

http://www.chibeer.org/

[chazwicke]

37 beers on cask! I should try to make this fest next year. I've had Two Hearted on cask and it was superb. Had it at Clark Street. I think that some of the Big American imperial IPAs that I have had on cask are not quite as good though. I Think classic style ales seem to be best.

[brewcrew76]

And they were all self serve.

[chazwicke]

Several of the Mid Atlantic RealBeer members attended one of our local real Ales festivals last fall. It was a tough choice after a while of whether i wanted to keep trying those that I liked particularly or try ones that I had not yet sampled. Several of us are members of the Society for the Preservation of Beer from Wood Chesapeake Chapter.

[steveh]

Originally posted by guildofevil
but when you over-chill a beer and flush it with nitro, you kill what taste it had.

Try a nitro beer that isn't over-chilled, it's surprisingly flavorful (dependent on the brew, of course). Is it a true replacement for CC? Of course not.

S.

[steveh]

Originally posted by brewcrew76
And they were all self serve.

NO!? :eek:

S.

[noby]

Originally posted by steveh
Try a nitro beer that isn't over-chilled, it's surprisingly flavorful (dependent on the brew, of course). Is it a true replacement for CC? Of course not.

S.

Trouble is, over here anyway, most places seem to over-chill all their lines (or at best have all beers at lager temps.). There is no differentiation between, say, stouts and lagers.

If the bottled variety isn't available I often order my next pint when I'm half way through the first, to give it a chance to warm up. (or maybe it's because I'm Irish ;) )

[steveh]

I remember seeing the Guinness Extra Cold (or however they were touting it) in Dublin when I was there last, but I never had a problem finding a stout that was at a decent (or manageble) temperature - things must be changing, and not for the better.

Probably for a similar reason as over here, the Guinness keg is in the bar cooler next to the swill, and they have to keep the swill cold so no one can taste its real flavor.

S.

[noby]

I don't want to make sweeping statements on the temp of all stouts in all pubs in Ireland, but it appears to me that since Extra Cold got confined to the annals of Guinness history (soon to be deleted for ever more) the temperature in certain pubs seems to be gradually decreasing.

You're probably right about the swill temp thing. It seems as if the lazy option is to run every keg through the same system, so everything is at a similair temp.

We're so far away from cc here it's unbelieveable. And we're not getting any closer, barring a couple of brewpubs.

[Oldfart]

Hi! I'm old, but new here...

Anyway, I'm a little surprised that no one has talked about CC homebrew. When I get my kegs stocked up, I brew one more and put it in the fermenting fridge, set at about 55F, and with about one psi CO2 on the keg. CAMRA would object, but this stuff is pretty close to the real thing. The last one was an ESB, very good, didn't last long. :) OF

[chazwicke]

Welcome to the board. Since you are in Falls Church and are making cask conditioned beers, I'll be right over.;)

Incidentally one of our Realbeer members here just opened a home brew shop in Falls Church. Try


www.myLHBS.com

Again Welcome to the board. Always glad to see another VA / DC member.

[gallowd7]

Welcome old fart. I do my version of cask similarly to yours: naturally carbonate, keep enough pressure in the keg to seal the lid, then when I dispense through the hand pump I bleed off all the CO2 and keep the valve open. After a session I re-pressurize. It's a horrible waste of CO2, but allows for long term storage, I've gotten as much as a month, while also letting some O2 change the beer flavor.

[Oldfart]

Originally posted by chazwicke
Welcome to the board. Since you are in Falls Church and are making cask conditioned beers, I'll be right over.;)

Incidentally one of our Realbeer members here just opened a home brew shop in Falls Church. Try


www.myLHBS.com

Again Welcome to the board. Always glad to see another VA / DC member. Hey, thanks for the LHBS lead -- that sucker is about 1-1/2 miles from where I live!

I'm in the Sleepy Hollow area, just off Sleepy Hollow Road, where are you? OF

[chazwicke]

My office is in Annandale but I live in Centreville. Life long Fairfax County resident here.

[sean_0]

I don't think that anyone has mentioned this but ..... hand pumping real ale introduces a lot of air into the beer. Since air is mostly Nitrogen you end up with a little carbonation (from priming) and a lot of dissolved nitrogen (if you've seen real ale pumped in an English pub it takes a while to settle just like Guinness) .

I'm not sure if they were the first to do it of not, but Guinness introduced keg systems with nitrogen gas in the early 60's to simulate the effect of hand pumping their stout.

Guinness used to be effectively a "real ale". It was cask conditioned and had to be looked after in the pub cellar before selling.

My grandmother used to run a pub from the 30's to the 80's so she remembered hammering bungs into casks and all that stuff.

[gallowd7]

I disagree with cask beer taking a while to settle. The "good" ones I've had have all settled out rather quickly, unlike Guiness which can take minutes. In instances where cask that has taken a while to "come to the top", the beer is usually completely flat and listless. I attributed it to poor cellermanship or equipment setup.

Now I of course have never had any of my cask/hand pump homebrews come out anything less than perfect, so I would not be able to offer any help with this.

[Sladek]

Originally posted by sean_0
I don't think that anyone has mentioned this but ..... hand pumping real ale introduces a lot of air into the beer. Since air is mostly Nitrogen you end up with a little carbonation (from priming) and a lot of dissolved nitrogen (if you've seen real ale pumped in an English pub it takes a while to settle just like Guinness) .
I've been wondering about this! I've seen in the cask ales at my local brewpub, and thought, "is this a nitrogen draught?!" Thanks!

[fretlessman71]

I've always loved the "storm in a glass" effect - I love watching my pour until it completely settles. It has a nice calming effect. Maybe I'll just order beer after beer, not drink them, and watch instead...

[steveh]

Originally posted by gallowd7
I disagree with cask beer taking a while to settle.

I agree, unless the pub is using a "sparkler" (I think Guild is calling it a "sprinkler"). Any cask-ale I've had served without that attachment has not taken but two draws on the beer engine to fill and serve. I've talked our local good-beer-bar into losing the sparkler...hopefully, it sticks.

From SeanO':

Guinness used to be effectively a "real ale". It was cask conditioned and had to be looked after in the pub cellar before selling.

My grandmother used to run a pub from the 30's to the 80's

All cask/real ale should be "tended to." And yes, prior to the late 50s (?) Guinness Stout used to be CC too. The nitrogen pour was developed to reproduce (artificially) the beer engine pour of a cask ale.

Great story about your GM, where was her pub? Tell us more!

S.

[sean_0]

Originally posted by gallowd7
[B]I disagree with cask beer taking a while to settle. The "good" ones I've had have all settled out rather quickly, unlike Guiness which can take minutes.

I accept that where pubs dont use those swanneck type taps on their beer engines it doesn't take long to settle.

My point was that IMO you will have to introduce some air to the beer when dispensing to get an authentic cask ale mouthfeel. I'm quite interested in this and I've been trying to figure out how I might do this with my own homebrew.


Originally posted by steveh


Great story about your GM, where was her pub? Tell us more!

S.

It was a big old place called "The Glocca-Maura Inn" on the main Cork-Dublin road near Mitchelstown. I lived there as a kid myself.

One interesting thing I can remember was that we had a cold Guinness tap (keg in a shed outside) and a warm Guinness tap (under the tap in the bar). Some guys would have a pint pulled from the cold one and topped up with the warm one, and some the other way round.

[steveh]

Originally posted by sean_0
I've been trying to figure out how I might do this with my own homebrew.

Many a member of my home-brew club cask-condition and have bought or built beer engines. I think the beer gets a shot of oxygen through the device, but no - there is no splined bung in their corny-kegs that allows any air in. It may not be true CC ale, but they almost always hit the spot.

It was a big old place called "The Glocca-Maura Inn" on the main Cork-Dublin road near Mitchelstown. I lived there as a kid myself.

Some guys would have a pint pulled from the cold one and topped up with the warm one, and some the other way round.

And how are things in Glocca-Maura? The neighborhood of your youth sounds lovely - and quite interesting on the mix of Guinness pulls - first I'd ever heard that.

S.

[Beer Garden]

I am new to brewing so sorry I do not have anything to add to the cask question, not to mention I'm a little late. But damn!! Nice posts everyone. My head is still spinning trying to take in all this information.

BG

[sean_0]

Since this thread finished up, I got my hands on 2 great books on homebrewing with a lot of info on cask conditioning at home. The first is : The Big Book of Brewing (http://www.play.com/Books/Books/4-/486875/-/Product.html?searchstring=big+book+of+brewing) by Dave Line. It's a bit out of date on a lot of things but gives a very practical overview of how you might cask condition at home using the plastic pressure barrels commonly available on this side of the Atlantic.

The other is this: Pale Ale (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0937381691/sr=8-1/qid=1145544389/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8898552-0387342?%5Fencoding=UTF8) by Terry Foster which gives a long history of Pale ale as a style and discusses cask conditioning quite a lot.

[PCaravan]

Just saw this thread and at the beginning people were talking about the difference in beer culture in America versus Europe. Drunk driving laws were mentioned but the fact that you more or less have to drive anywhere in most places here is what I always thought was the biggest reason many people in American choose to drink at home. When I'm in England, I notice that almost everyone lives within close walking distance to a pub. Here that's not the case in most places. In fact, people are so spread out here compared to England (and I'm guessing the rest of Europe) that it would be difficult to support enough pubs to make that possible here though I'm sure that prohibition forcing establishments to close didn't help either.

Another subject discussed in this thread was regarding CC IPA and trying to make it more like the "old" tradition. As I understand it, not only did IPA not get any oak flavor (already mentioned), but it was also made strong and well hopped not only to survive the voyage but also to be dilluted to normal strength upon arrival in India thereby maximizing the storage capability of the ship carrying the beer. So if you're looking to make it "authentic" you'll want to make your IPA as normal but then dillute it after aging just before serving in your cask. However, I like my "modern" IPA served as is and if I want a dilluted IPA, I'll just make a pale ale or a bitter... but as long as were're talking authentic...

[Mad Scientist]

I think distance & driving is only part of the difference between UK and European drinking culture and the US, and soem of the others are fundamental differences between our cultures.

As for the IPA, I though the dilution once it got to india was still a matter of debate. Even so, I wonder what the strengths were before and after dilution, and if the beer was meant to be diluted, or if crafty pub owners in India did it to offset the expensive cost of the ale and make and extra pound or two.

[PCaravan]

If it's a matter of debate, I think I'll stand with the dillution theory. It makes too much sense. I've even read somewhere that many commercial brewers today will make their beers at stronger levels for dillution later with little, if any, difference as if they had fermented it normal strength thereby maximizing their fermenter space. It also makes sense that the publicans in India would be looking to serve the same product as they would have in England so they would want to dillute it not only to make more money but also to serve what they thought their consumers would want. And it also makes sense that the consumer would at least initially be looking for their normal session beers they were accustomed to in England. I'm not suggesting that making it strong with the intent of dillution was a shady practice... just the chosen solution to the problem at hand.

[Mad Scientist]

I makes you wonder though, because we have the records of IPAs that were distributed to the UK and those made in the US, and they are not simialr to session style ales (say a pale ale), they are an IPA, I'd suggest that even after dilution, the IPA was still a different animal...because if dilution reduced the concentrated beer to a session pale ale (that was the same as what was being served in the pub), then the style would not have otherwise gained such popularity at that time.

Wow, that's alot of, ummm, commas....

[Mad Scientist]

And I'm not sure where i stand on it, but I'll go with some being diluted, and others not.

[PCaravan]

I'd go with the idea of some dilluted and some not... that stands with the tradition of having varying strength of similar beers.

[Mad Scientist]

Ahh, but to have a time machine....

[onlooker]

I would like to know what evidence you guys have for IPA's being diluted as I have read a fair bit on the subject and never seen dilution mentioned.

[Mill Rat]

Originally posted by PCaravan
I've even read somewhere that many commercial brewers today will make their beers at stronger levels for dillution later with little, if any, difference as if they had fermented it normal strength thereby maximizing their fermenter space.

As someone who has performed consulting work for some of the mega-brewers, I can confirm that this practice, known as high-gravity brewing, is uniform for that entire segment of the industry. To not do so would be financial suicide. High-gravity brewing can become troublesome when you are producing a high-gravity beer because of scorching during brewing and yeast viability during fermentation. However, the products of these breweries don't present that challenge...

[Mad Scientist]

So then that 'Hurricane High Gravity' beer that I saw in the store (Bud product) at 8.1% is a their undiluted results?

[Mill Rat]

Originally posted by Boerne Brew
So then that 'Hurricane High Gravity' beer that I saw in the store (Bud product) at 8.1% is a their undiluted results?

I haven't seen that product, and since my work is more facilities engineering, I am not always on top of the products going out the door.

[Mad Scientist]

Even though this is marketed toward the 'lower income' segment, I would wager that it is one of thier better offerings, Much better than regular bud.

[onlooker]

The major fall out between Inbev and Pierre Celis came when they started to pressure him to use high gravity brewing at Hoegaraden.

-----------------------------------------------------------
Primary : Prototype IPA , Chilka IPA , Berhampore Best Bitter
Secondary : Merchant of the Devil Imperial Stout
On the Handpump : OSB Ordinary Bitter

[dparsons]

Originally posted by PCaravan
I'd go with the idea of some dilluted and some not... that stands with the tradition of having varying strength of similar beers.

I'll bet the owners of the beer, who wanted to get the most for their money, wanted it diluted. The drinkers of the beer did not. Who wants to drink watered down beer? If this is the case it certainly isn't a matter of tradition in the idealistic sense of the word.

[Mad Scientist]

Originally posted by dparsons
....Who wants to drink watered down beer?

BMC drinkers